Break the Rules, Build the Wealth: Real Talk on Women, Worth and What You Should Be Charging with Roxanne Calder

Hello and welcome

to another week and another

episode of this podcast,

unleashing Brilliance.

So today we're gonna talk

about one of the biggest

mindset monsters for women in

business, and that is money.

And more specifically.

Charging what we're worth.

Now, if you've been listening

to this podcast for a

while, you will have seen

or listened to a couple of

episodes where I'm talking

about pricing and worth,

how to double our profit.

Well, today I

have the pleasure.

Of the incredible Roxanne

Calder joining me as a

guest on this conversation.

She is a CEO, A recruiter

and an author of the brand

new book, earning Power,

breaking Barriers, and

Building Wealth for Women.

And let me tell you, this

isn't just another lean

in pep talk because we

get real about the gender

pay gap and actually.

Where we are contributing to

that, we get real about the

pricing traps and imposter

syndrome and how to shift

from hustle and hope to

wealth building strategies.

We're gonna break down her

million dollar formula,

diving into self-worth

versus market value.

And yes, we're gonna talk

about the exact moment.

Many of us still discount

our expertise out of fear.

Conditioning or out

of just plain habit.

So if you've ever second

guessed your pricing, if

you've ever second guessed

the negotiation for a salary

increase, if you've rewritten

a proposal 15 times or agreed

to work with that low client,

you knew would be a headache.

This one's for you.

So let's get stuck in.

Roxanne, welcome to the

Unleashing Brilliance Podcast.

So fabulous to have you

joining me in a conversation

all about earning power,

charging our worth, all

of the imposter syndrome

that kicks in on that.

It's wonderful to have you.

Thanks for coming along today.

Thank

you for having me.

Now we were talking

off air about, why I'm so glad

that somebody has written this

book around earning potential.

I shared the, in the work that

I do with, with my clients,

I would, I reckon probably

every single week there's

conversations about how

much money should I charge?

people are trying

to discount me.

Should I go for it?

I can't possibly

charge that much.

this is why this book is so

important because we've got

to, we've just got to get

past all of those barriers

when it comes to our worth,

our earning potential,

and charging our worth.

But before we dive into it,

I'd love to hear straight up,

why did you write this book?

What was it that drove

you to write this book?

I love

writing for a start.

So it's, my, it's my second

book, but in particular,

this topic well is based

on the gender pay gap.

So, my work is recruitment.

I have a recruitment

business, it's called S 10.

I've worked my whole

life in recruitment and.

The majority of people

that I've worked

with have been women.

I've placed thousands

of women in jobs.

and throughout that

time, specifically,

probably the last maybe

10 years, I had noted.

The decisions that

females were making that

was costing them a whole

lot of money throughout

their, their lifetime.

So for example, you know,

uh, we would have a job offer

that would come through and

that, you know, whoever it was

would come back and say, Rox,

it's just not the right time.

Or, I don't think I've

got the right skills.

or spoke to my husband and we

think that I should be doing

this instead, or whatever it.

might be.

these are Decisions that

females were making or

women were making, you

know, once a month or every

quarter or once a year.

This is a daily event.

And so,

I started to my mind,

Add it up

And like, I'm quite

a, I'm quite good at math.

I was like, a sec.

that's $5,000.

It's not costing you $5,000.

It's actually costing

you this amount.

And by the time you come to

retirement, that's, I'm pretty

sure that's a million dollars.

So I've worked this all out.

And so when the gender pay gap

started to come through loud

and clear last year, even that

had been talked about forever.

I remember thinking, but I've

known about this forever.

Why?

Why are we making such

a big deal about it now?

Like, why is everyone

blowing the trumpet when

it's been around forever?

And that's why I

wrote the book.

So the, the gender pay

gap in its strictest form

talks about structural and

systemic barriers that stop

women from earning more.

I take that and carry it

through the book to say we

carry those with us and that's

what impacts our decisions.

And my belief is

Probably similar to your

audience, you know, if

the, the business owners

or managers in that sort of

field that you own, sort of

control of your own destiny.

I, don't like people to tell

me what I can, can't earn or

what I should or shouldn't do.

You know, I was one

of those little bit.

Rebellious females and.

for this structural

change to come through,

it's gonna be centuries.

so we won't be around

to benefit from it and

neither will our children.

So the book is very much about

efficacy in terms of bringing

change about for yourself.

And hence why I'm so

glad you've written the book.

It's, it's exactly um, I

wrote a piece on LinkedIn

around International,

international Women's Day,

around, talking about actually

how I hate International

Women's Day, how I'm over

it.

And it is because of that,

we're having the same

conversations over and over

and over again, and nothing

fundamentally is changing.

but the thing is,

Janine, I think sometimes when

we challenge that rhetoric.

sometimes we get shot down

for that because people

wanna just get on the same

train with that and, but if

nothing changes from it, then

you, I'm with you on that.

We should be challenging

and saying, well, what's

happening about it?

Yeah, it's,

it's really interesting.

I mean, I, uh, before we

dive into your book I've

got early twenties age

children and I was having

a conversation with my son

about, the career choices

that he's making and where

he's starting his career.

And, his girlfriend,

long-term girlfriend is.

Going into the same industry.

he was questioning this

concept of inequality

as a 21-year-old.

And I said to him, you

know, out of interest,

maybe ask your girlfriend

what, what she thinks her

opening salary should be.

What, what, what

sort of pay level?

And even in that, in

instance, the discrepancy.

Showed itself.

this is my point son.

Uh, it's really important

that you, that you actually

become aware of this and

it's equally important.

So I have, uh, my daughters

friends or friends of friends

come and help me and they'll

go, I'll do it for free.

I go, no, you won't.

You have to charge.

But it's that, it's that

constant challenging

and thinking about it.

So, let's just talk about

some of these, money blocks

that you referenced your.

You talk in your book

about your million dollar

framework, which I think

is absolute genius, uh,

because what it does is it

gives women this tangible

visual roadmap to wealth.

But you also talk about

these mindset traps

that get in the way.

I'm curious, what's, what's

one silent money block that

you see constantly showing

up for women and how do we

start to, dismantle that?

If I said to you,

Janine, or any of your

friends, or, you know, if

you had daughters, you are

impacted by the discrepancy,

this million dollar

gender pay discrepancy.

It's likely, even if you

nodded, it's likely deep

down that you are thinking

not so much 'cause I've been

in charge of my own future.

I've, I'm educated, I'm

whatever it might be.

And very lies part

of the problem.

Most females

think that they're

not affected by this,

but I can pretty

much guarantee.

Nearly every single female

has been impacted by it.

And it's because we carry

the, the level of bias

or social conditioning,

all the way through.

So from when we are a

child of, that's what you

should do or shouldn't

do, that's what you should

wear or shouldn't wear.

All the way through to

the workforce and that

builds and, and compacts.

So when we have, you

know, we carry that piece

of baggage, and we carry

that piece of baggage, and

then when we get to the

workforce, it's any wonder

that we are making decisions

that are holding us back.

It's because of all

The layers that we've

been carrying in time.

The example that you gave with

your son and his girlfriend.

All of the stats and

figures back that up.

Graduates, females and

males, female graduates

start on a lower salary than

males, no matter the degree.

If they're in the same

degree, it's the same

thing, the same degree.

Females will start on a lower

starting salary than males.

when you talked about

the blocks, you know,

for example, we need to

just back ourselves more.

that's an easy statement

to make, Isn't it?

Like, oh, just

back yourself more.

And so it goes back to

having the confidence to

be brave and your decisions

question the mindset.

So when you are saying no to

an opportunity, what's the

real reason you're saying no?

Is it because you are

too scared to say yes?

So for, you know, your

clients that are saying

to you, oh, I don't think

I should charge that.

Should I charge that.

I've been asked to give

an $8,000 discount.

I don't feel comfortable.

What do I do about that?

The reason you're questioning

it, isn't it because on

worth, it's because you're

too scared to push back.

And if that's the reason,

then get comfortable with

recognizing that and then

start to push back on that

and work out how, on practice

how to have that conversation

that says to your client, I'm.

really sorry.

Thank you for

bringing that up.

And I'm really

grateful that you.

Sink or would like to ask

me to take that discount,

but I actually can't.

And here's the reasons why.

Mm

Do you actually actively see

that in your organization

with the female candidates

versus the male candidates?

What, how does

it present itself

in so

many different ways

could

could be that they're

presented with an opportunity,

a promotion, advancement.

It's unexpected and instead

of being like, that's amazing,

wow, someone believes in me.

It's the, oh, I don't

think I'm ready to do that.

I, I actually need

another couple of years.

I don't have all

of those skills.

And yet, if it was a male

in the same situation,

Guaranteed they will grab that

opportunity and run with it.

And so they should, and

good on them for doing that.

We need to do more of that

Or it might be they get an

opportunity and we know,

I see this every day.

I get an opportunity they come

back and it might be I need to

talk to my husband about it.

Okay, fair enough.

'cause it's a family.

then the answer comes

back my husband thinks

that I shouldn't.

So what I always think is.

okay,

if that was a joint decision.

Own it.

I think that I shouldn't

do it Instead of it

being my husband.

And I know this might sound

controversial to, to say

this, but it is actually true.

This is what happens

and it's reality and it

happens with 30 year olds.

I'm not talking about

people who are, you

know, in their sixties or

might have grown up in a

different era where it was a

different lifestyle choice.

This is happening for

for women in their

in women.

Oh.

And even, you know, just to

put it into the context of

my own business, where I'm

essentially helping female

business owners scale and

grow their businesses, and

I get the, the calls through

and we, it's very clear as to

whether this program that I

runs, a fit or not upfront.

And you then get to how

much, and it becomes.

Let me just go talk to

my husband about it, some

come back and they say no.

Even though it is pretty

clear that their business

will not grow, will not

change, will not scale if

they don't do anything.

So my point there is in

terms of your own personal

development and your own

growth and your own success,

take ownership of it.

Why do you think we put black?

It's because to me,

it's almost like

allocating the excuse.

It's not taking the ownership

onto either your husband, your

partner, or whatever it is.

Why do we do that?

Again, I think it's

conditioning, it, it's an

escape as well, because then

we don't take responsibility.

We'll put it this way, if you

have the conversation whether

husband, partner, friend,

it doesn't matter, and that

person convinces you in some

way or influences you in

some way to make a call that

doesn't entirely sit with you.

'cause really you would've

loved that opportunity.

so when you come back and

you deliver the message

that you're not doing it.

It's easier to say, oh,

I spoke to my parents.

I've even had that, I've

spoken to my parents about

it and they think that I

should stay in Australia.

Or my husband thinks it's not

the right time now because

we've got our kids at school

and I'm the one that's

responsible for making sure

I'm home in the afternoons.

What, whatever it might be.

And that's fair enough.

Like, you know, that's,

that's, okay if that's

a decision, if it's

your decision as well.

and that's very different.

So that's different to Rox.

I thought about it, I've

discussed it with, with,

the family and what we've

got going on at the moment.

I need to be home and I

want to be home take care

of that responsibility.

At the.

moment,

I'd really love to

explore this maybe next

year or the year after.

Now, the other problem

with that is the assumption

that that opportunity is

gonna be there the next

year or the year after.

'cause it's not.

That's

The message that

you then send to the person

that was offering You that

opportunity, isn't that you're

grateful or isn't that, oh,

I might take it up next year.

What you're really saying

is I'm not backing myself.

You probably need to go

and choose somebody else.

That's the subliminal message,

and I think people need to be

aware of how we're communicate

with all of those things.

The message isn't, I

can't take it right now.

The message is deeper

than that, and that's

the message that goes

back to other people.

In the same way when we, are

conditioned or reject certain

things, the message is, I

don't believe I'm worth that.

mm And I think

you, I can't remember

which part of your book I

read it in, but you talk

about in my world, pricing

yourself is just a number.

And, and that number

is that reflection of

how we see ourselves.

Can you just go a little

bit deeper on that?

Yeah, so the

gender pay gap, isn't

just about money.

It's about what money

symbolizes And money

symbolizes our self-worth

and everything that,

that is attached to that.

So it's not about the

$5,000, the $2,000, the

2.4% growth, the 5% growth.

It's actually the,

Attachment to that what

it, what it symbolizes.

the other thing that goes

with that is that women

are just not as comfortable

discussing and talking

about money openly.

And if you can talk about

money openly, then it just

becomes a much more natural

way of discussing things.

a really good example the

other day we were looking at a

car and I was the one that was

doing the negotiation with it.

And the person I was dealing

with, I just was really

straight and I said, it

needs to be at this price.

It needs to, finance has

to be at this level, or

we, we won't be doing it.

I said, it's not

personal, it's just

that that's the deal.

and he was the

finance guy side.

He said, oh, thanks.

I really appreciate you

being straight with that.

This is what I can do.

I think we have to get

very comfortable talking

about money and not, not

being squirmy about it.

Yeah, in my world

we do a lot of the, the

same and you know, I'm very

commercial off, straight up.

I'm going, you know,

talk to me about where

your business is at.

I wanna look at the numbers.

Where are you

wanting to go to?

And every quarter we're

talking numbers, numbers,

numbers, numbers.

And I know initially

some people find it

really uncomfortable.

I love that.

I love that comment.

I dunno if you hear this of,

it's not about the money.

It's it's not about the money.

I'm going No, it's always

about the money because the

money facilitates whatever

lifestyle you want, et

cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

And it sort of

isn't and yet it is.

Whether it be lifestyle,

wealth, giving back, whatever.

where did your, I'm really

curious where, where did

your confidence, money

savviness, wealth savviness,

ability to talk, like you

said, clear with conviction.

Where do you think

that came from?

Hard work maybe,

I, started in recruitment

in the days when you could

make quite, you know, decent

money in recruitment and I

was young, I was a graduate.

I did a bachelor's of arts

degree and all of my friends

did economics, finance,

business medicine law.

So amongst my friends,

I always felt like, I

was like, not the loser,

but you know, like they

were all doing medicine

and law And everything.

and it was during the

recession, so it was

hard to get a job.

And they all landed jobs.

And then I finally got a job

and I fell into recruitment

and I was good at it.

And I got paid really well

because it was bonus linked.

Yeah,

And I remember

feeling that I didn't

deserve those bonuses and

that that money, and I

remember always feeling.

Embarrassed about it and

also like a fraud, like,

oh, what if people actually

find out that I'm not that

smart, I'm not that good.

And you know, this

is just really lucky.

And that was one of the

reasons why I did further

study was because I

never wanted to be in a

position where I couldn't

justify it all, And.

suddenly enough, then I just

worked harder and harder and

harder, And then it just got

to a point where people would

want a discount or something.

And I just thought, no.

I'm gonna work till 10

o'clock at night for you.

I'm gonna wake up

at three o'clock in

the morning for you.

I will deliver because

I will kill myself

to deliver for you.

And if you don't wanna

pay for that, that's okay.

But

I need to feel good about

working with you, and I'm not

gonna feel good about it if

you just ask me for a discount

where it, it's belittling and

I, it's not my worth anymore.

So I don't know where it came

from, but probably a bit of

time, a bit of hard knocks.

definitely hard

work Right now.

I feel I absolutely deserve.

In fact, I often

feel I deserve more,

therefore I charge.

So I sometimes think

I need to charge more.

I have, I have

this little game going

with a colleague of mine

where the game is to

see how much we can get.

Oh, really?

cause you know,

when I started out post

corporate, I, I charge X

amount and I, I personally,

my, my business strategy

is days down, dollars up.

So I wanna earn, I. As

much money as I can for as

few days work as possible.

So I strategically structured

my business around that.

So for me, you know, every

time I can up my prices,

it's like brilliant bonus,

I can get some time off.

But equally it's, you know,

there, there's so many real

world examples for me, whether

it be same clients, same buyer

who might be paying me x. And

they're paying somebody else.

YI go, there's, there's no,

there's no science in pricing.

Uh, for example,

or, or salary.

I go, you know, who

sets this stuff?

My argument to my clients,

I, who, who's told you

that you can only charge X?

Because I haven't seen a,

a book anywhere where I've

signed up to say, uh, I can

only charge $500 an hour.

It's like, rubbish.

Who said, how can Tony

Robbins charge a million?

Like.

The thing that I

would say with that is it's.

Not about just charge,

in my opinion, not just

about charging more and not

just about asking for more

money because I Wally then

that people will really

fall badly if what you are

asking for is not warranted.

So like, as you know, when

I said to you before, I'm

gonna work really hard for

my clients, so I feel really

comfortable in sticking to

my rates and not discounting.

And If people are going to

ask for a pay increase, for

example, or charge a certain

price, I think it's gotta be.

You gotta back it up.

because otherwise

people are gonna be in a

situation where the boss

is gonna say, well no,

and.

and we're

in difficult climate

at the moment

Yeah.

You, you've got to have

the social proof to back

it up the worth to back

it up the case studies.

Absolutely.

And um, that same son I was

telling you about, we were

having a round the table

conversation where I'd.

Suggested he taught to,

he's doing an internship

at the moment and it's an

internship that's unpaid.

Well, isn't he lucky

he can stay at home?

But I said to him you know,

go and talk to the boss

and, and have a conversation

about his, her career.

And the per the

leader actually said.

Say yes, say yes as

much as possible.

do the work.

you won't necessarily earn

x like your mates 'cause

he's, he's got into a

certain industry that isn't

the big paid industry.

But over time it will, it

will pick up like this.

And that's what you

are talking about,

that balance between.

getting paid what you're

worth, but equally

having the backup and the

evidence, uh, which is key.

This book, I'm

holding it here.

For anyone that's

watching this on YouTube

what's your wish?

You know, you've got in

here so many mindset tools.

You talk about confidence.

The people that are listening

to this not right now, who

are going Yes, Rox, and

I know I Yes, yes, yes.

I'm with you.

I've got all of that stuff

holding me back and getting

so frustrated 'cause people

are jumping ahead of me

or getting paid more with.

More than me for the same job.

what sort of advice

would you give them

I mean, this

is my advice, just

probably in general in

terms of life, but I just

question all assumptions.

You know, like you

said, who, who says you

have to charge that?

What rule what rules

said that, which is

again, bizarre because.

I'm rule conscious, but

I also really love to

break certain rules.

So it, I, I think just

questional assumptions.

So the next time in a daily

basis as well, and especially

anything around gender.

You know, I, I, give those

stories in, in the book where

daily you, if you listen,

you will hear All of those

um, levels of bias being laid

on, young women all the time.

So I just would question all

of it and don't let that be

the legacy or be the label

that you carry with you

when you make a decision on

something and maybe, you know.

Think if it was the male

next door to me, how would

they feel about that I

think they're gonna think

differently about it.

Sometimes I do that,

sometimes I'm like, right,

I'm about to have this

difficult conversation.

I wonder what the difference

would be if I was a male.

How would they tackle it?

what words would they use?

What body language

would they use?

And then sometimes that

doesn't always work.

'cause you, you have to be

congruent and you have to be

genuine in, in your own style.

I sometimes do, do that

just to, you know, I

always think you should

challenge assumptions.

there's a table in

your book where you talk

about over a period of time

not asking for the pay rise

and you've got the opposite.

Can you, can you.

Try and articulate that.

'cause to me that

was like, whoa.

And I think that's where that

million dollar gap comes in.

It was like, oh wow.

Like the reality is there.

think

that's chapter five.

So.

I break the book down

to explain all of that.

But in this one chapter, I do

sort of try and show people

a really basic, easy formula.

Again, going back to what we

were saying before that most

people will be like, oh no,

I'm not affected by that.

But in actual fact, you

know, like I said, most

women are, so, for example,

there's one that I.

Talk about where if you are

a woman who, and if we use

the average salary that's

taken from the Australian

Bureau statistics of 98,000,

if you use that salary.

and you do not receive one

single pay increase for a 10

year period, and you know, you

might be thinking, oh, come

on, that's an exaggeration.

It is absolutely

not an exaggeration.

If you sit in a circle

with five women.

One of those women will

not have had a pay increase

for that period of time.

So I'm talking about just

minimal wage growth of 2.4%,

that over a 10 year period

is a difference of $139,000,

which is a lot of money that

can be paid off in a mortgage

or whatever it might be, let

alone what that does to your

superannuation at the end.

Let alone the fact

that your buying power,

is less.

Let's even forget

about the increase.

You actually cannot buy the

same milk and bread that

you bought before because

you, your, your dollar value

is less 10 years later.

So that's the reality.

I I also break it down

in, in another way, in, in

that chapter when I show

three different ladies

who make three different

decisions over their

career and the difference

in earnings for them.

And again, it shows it

really clearly small

decisions that people

make just tiny decisions.

They're not big ticket ones.

Make a difference at buy a

million dollars and that's

because it's the compound

effective earnings as well.

It's not the, I'm not

gonna ask my boss for that

$2,000 increase because

it's only $2,000 after tax.

It's not very much who

could be bothered with that?

I don't wanna go through

the pain of him saying no to

me or her saying no to me.

I'd rather just get on with

it so it, it's not about that.

It's about the, fact that

that $2,000 this year, plus

wage growth the following

year, and again and again

and again, turns out to

be more than you think.

over dinner one

night with some friends.

We actually broke down what

our, not just the live cost

of living expenses from

the perspective of, looking

after your family or your

significant others or whoever

it is, but just all the other.

Duff that we, you know,

you go hair, I need

to get my hair done.

And the amount of doctor's

appointments, particularly

depending on what stage

of life you're at, the

medication, the, this,

that, and you go, oh my

God, it's ridiculous.

The amount of extra.

Spence that we potentially,

individually take on board.

It reminds me as you're

talking about, uh, a few years

ago I had a client and she

was asking my advice about

which she'd been approached

to take a new job and.

Honestly for probably about

half an hour, it was like

she was reading through

the list of, this is what

I'm doing here, this is

what I'd be doing there.

and it was all essentially

qualitative stuff that she'd

be working on right onto

the hours and how far she'd

have to travel and whether

she'd have her own office and

this, and I went, hang on.

Can we just, like, you've been

talking to me through your

list of pluses and minuses

Ah, ah, I haven't even thought

about that because I think

I need to put in like this.

It could come later.

And as long as I prove myself,

I'm like, I'm sorry, but I

reckon your male colleagues

wouldn't even be having the

in-depth conversation unless

they knew about the dollars,

and that comes back to that

ingrained bias or assumption.

Because of the

industry I'm in, 'cause

I'm in that employment

area, you have to pick the

right place because the

wrong place for the right

dollars will set you back.

'cause you'll, you know, if

you know the right place,

you're not gonna thrive.

But equally the dollars

must come into place.

Like when you said

before, I agree with you.

It is all about the money,

not from a greed perspective

and not for any other

reason, except that money

makes the world go round.

if you wanna denote

to charity, fabulous.

But you need money to do that.

If you wanna help your

parents, your children,

you need money to do that.

All of those things.

And we were too scared to

admit that or say that,

and especially in business,

because we are conditioned

also, not just females, but

I think business in general.

We are conditioned also

not to be too profitable,

and I'm sorry, but

especially small businesses.

We must be profitable.

We employ the, you know,

the largest sector and.

We've gotta do that.

It's good for our

employees to do that.

Mm. And I think part

of that challenge in terms

of the, the conditioning

it's almost like when you

are employed, it's a slightly

easier to negotiate rates

and proposals because you're

hiding behind the brand.

Suddenly when it's

yourself for whatever

reason, it becomes harder.

And I hear that, but

I've only been doing

this for six months.

I go, no, you haven't.

You've been doing this

for three decades.

That's it.

That's it.

You've got all that wisdom

and experience and knowledge

that brings it to this level.

Totally.

Um, I love it.

That's such a great book.

Before, before we wrap, I

really wanna talk a little bit

about this chapter seven and

then finally chapter eight.

'cause Chapter seven.

I love, 'cause you've added

this perspective about

the insight and advice

for our beautiful men.

Can you tell me a little

bit more about, why

you wanted to include

that perspective in the

Yeah, because the

gender pay gap is complex

and controversial because

people don't understand it.

And anyone first hears me

talk about it, I'm sure that

they think that I'm banging

on about the structural

EL elements, et cetera.

Yeah, they're relevant, but

no, I'm banging on about

the internal elements that

stop us from earning more.

And so equally.

I don't want people to

think that it's a male

bash 'cause it's just not.

And the males that are in

our life, I'm fortunate to

have had a, you know, great

dad, brother partner who've

been really supportive.

So maybe, you know, when

you said to me before, why

do you have confidence?

I don't know, maybe

it comes from that.

But equally, I was also

conditioned to be a girl.

You know, like, you gotta wear

that, you've gotta do that.

No, you can't speak up and,

you know, all those things.

But I put that in there

because we're a team.

You know, we're

humans together.

And if you start to be

divisive and be like, oh,

males do that, and females

do that, it's not about that.

It's really about

coming together.

And we need males to be

supportive of us in the

workforce and as our

partners or as our friends

or as our parents or

whatever that might be.

And in many, many different

ways in the workforce.

It's not just about mentoring,

it's about being sponsors.

For us, there's a big.

Difference between

what that is.

And there are many men,

many male CEOs, leaders out

there who do a fabulous job.

And I don't want the

gender pay gap to be about

saying that or inferring

that that's not the case.

Because, you, you

know, we're a team.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, and that then leads

onto that final piece where

you talk about, again,

speaking my language, the

importance of a support squad.

You know, you talk about these

support networks and, and

getting advice from people to

help navigate this journey.

Can you, again, can you,

from your perspective.

Why?

Why is it so important to

surround yourself with the

right people that are gonna

help you navigate this?

Because if you don't,

you've got false structures.

if you go to your mom,

your mom is gonna be

protective unless, I mean.

You're probably the only

mom maybe that is gonna be

like, listen, I can give it

to you straight, but most

moms are gonna be like my

poor son, my poor daughter,

that they're gonna see it

from a different perspective.

So your mom isn't always

the best person to go to.

Neither is your partner and

neither is your best friend.

Maybe differently depending on

the relationships you've got.

Um.

I feel like I'm fortunate

enough if I go to my partner

and tell him about a scenario,

he's always able to go,

actually, I think you've

got that wrong, or no, I

think you are wrong in that

situation, Rox and whatever.

So you have to also be open

to giving that feedback to,

to change So I think it's

important to have those people

around you who will not say

what you want them to say and

not agree with you, and be

comfortable in hearing that

so that you can make the right

decision

for you?

yeah.

Couldn't agree more.

Roxanne, what's, your

wish for this book?

If it could touch one person,

if it could change somebody's

life that's listening to

this, if it could give them

one thing, what is your

wish for this, this book

in terms of its impact?

to know that women

have enormous potential and

that we should harness that.

Yeah.

Love that.

Roxanne, it's been an

absolute pleasure to chat.

I have a feeling that we

could sit down over a few

bowls of wine and a nice

dinner, and between the

two of us definitely work

on, uh, how, how to, how

to get researcher this.

And for those of you that are

listening you know, if you

weren't ready to claim your

earning power before, I so

hope that you are now after

this incredible conversation

because as Roxanne shares

in her book Earning Power,

it's about the mindset.

It's about actually the

reality check of this, this

million dollar formula.

And actually, you know, as,

as we've talked about, I think

Roxanne, I wanna just thank

you for giving every single

one of us the nudge that we

need to stop playing small.

Because like you, I believe

we're not here to shrink,

we're not here to barter.

I. Our brilliance in

exchange for breadcrumbs.

You know, you, every single

one of you listening here,

you've made choices and you

are here to build your version

of wealth, whatever that is.

And it's about claiming your

space and it's about getting

paid your worth, your right,

according to wherever you

are at in your business or

in your career right now.

So.

If this episode has lit

up that fire for you, uh,

please don't let it fade.

Please share it.

Please post it.

Please check out the

fabulous Roxanne Calder.

You can check the

show, show notes.

Her contact details

are in there.

And definitely grab yourself

a copy of Earning Power.

It will certainly make

you and go really, and

open those eyes wide and give

you the reality check of.

Potentially some decisions, if

not many, that you have made

for yourself that have given

you actually taking you a step

back from where you can be.

Roxanne, thank

you again so much

and thanks for

writing this book.

Thanks

so much, Janine.