Is Your Business Meeting Your Essential Needs? with Angela Raspass

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Janine: Hello. Hello. Welcome to this week's episode of Unleashing Brilliance. I want to talk today about whether your business, this thing that you have created, whether this business of yours is actually meeting your essential needs. Or whether something's actually missing, whether actually right now [00:01:00] today is time to take a step back and rethink to recalibrate the next chapter of your business.

I'm going to share with you the six essential needs. We're going to go through them. Um, we're going to have a conversation about what you can do from today to help you. To make sure that the business that you are building is aligned to those essential needs, and that you are actually achieving the success that you want.

I'm joined today with the incredible Angela Raspass. We talk about gathering evidence. We talk about surrounding ourselves with the right people. Thank you And we dig deep into this opportunity that you have to recalibrate so that you can build a business that you love working with clients that you want to work with and unlocking that profit, doing work in the way that you want to work.

Enjoy.

Angela: Welcome, [00:02:00] Angela. Super excited that you're joining me on today's podcast. How are you today? Well, I actually got to the gym this morning, not to boast because there was a lot of resistance, but as a result, I actually feel quite good about myself right now because I got my ass out of bed before I got to the desk.

So yeah, I'm pretty buoyant today.

Janine: Hey, I'm so glad that we've managed to find a time that works to get on this podcast. You know, you and I work together. I love what you're doing in your business and, and the client work that you do, your passion for essentially helping So many incredible business owners who get to that point of curiosity about what their next chapter should look like.

And you know, this is your space because like me, you're passionate about really helping business owners fulfill their goals and vision and making sure they're building a business on their terms. So I know we just said offline, we're going to have to make sure we, uh, succinct cause we could talk for hours and [00:03:00] hours and hours, but, uh, I really want to delve into today.

First up, why you do what you do. And then let's have a general conversation about what you currently see as some of the biggest challenges for business owners and maybe give some thought starters of what people can start getting curious about as they do start shaping what this next chapter should be in their businesses.

So first up, why do you do what you do? Why are you passionate about helping business owners? Really unlock that next chapter. Of their business growth. What is it that drives you, Angela?

Angela: Well, I think a lot of us, if we, if we stop and pause, we usually start our businesses for a specific reason. They can be like what I call a soapbox issue, something that really riles us or something that we can see that we have a solution to, but also it can be because of an experience that we've had.

So I often say the next chapters are built on skinned knees. And in [00:04:00] my case, when I had kids and didn't try and go back to corporate world, cause that was just. Too hard basket. I took the skills I had and I created a business as a lot of us do, and it grew and, and I ended up with staff and I bought an office and I had a marketing agency, but I'd never paused to actually go, is this the direction I want to go?

Is this what I actually want to build? It was just next, next, next, because I could, and I never paused to question it. And it took a while for me to get to a stage where I was like, Began to hate what I did when we start a business, because we have this concept that we'll have a degree of freedom or flexibility and we'll enjoy what we do.

Otherwise, why would you do it? But I found that I wasn't because just because you can, it doesn't mean you should. Took me a while to get out of that. Ruts that I was in to make the decision to change and start my own next chapter. And if I had had some of the understanding and the knowledge about what my choices were, as [00:05:00] opposed to what I thought they were, life could look pretty different.

And it took me a while to wrestle through that. And I really looking back. don't want other people to get stuck doing a thing either that they don't want to do or doing something less than what they actually have the capability for because self doubt is tripping them up. And I really wanted to sort of stage an intervention, so to speak, to help people break out and start the next thing, whether it be something brand new.

Or much more often an evolution, a recalibration. So that's where the passion came from. And because underneath that, I knew that self doubt was like, it was like holding your back's an understatement. It was like literally straightjacketing a lot of women in particular as to what they could really be capable of doing.

So a bit of a, bit of a soapbox of my own. It's like, no, let's let them

Janine: loose. And I love that. And this is, this is why we get on so well, because, you know, much like yourself, uh, my own journey is one of, you know, building up [00:06:00] decades of experience, honing my craft, and then building something. And then that point of going, Oh, is this what I want to do next?

And that's a really scary place to be. And I think that you're right. There's so many of us. That point that you said, just because we can, doesn't mean you should. A mentor of mine once said that to me, and I see it all the time in, uh, with our clients where it's, I can work with them. I can do that. And I can do that.

And I can do that. And I can stop just because you can, doesn't mean you should. What do you want this next season to look like? What do you want your business to look like from now? Because as you quite rightly pointed out, the risk is we end up resenting it. Or the very thing that we've built becomes shackles around our ankles.

Or it's negatively impacting our lifestyle. We're working damn hard, but we're not enjoying it. And as we know, life is way too short to be doing that. Absolutely.

Angela: And we have to be practical. We have to be practical. We can't [00:07:00] like build castles in the air as in, you know, well, if I'm doing the thing I love, I'll never work another day in my life.

That's not true. That is not true. We do need to put the effort in. So for me, it's like this, this grounded. Place where you are leaning much more into using your strengths and leaning into the things that are most important, where you can really make a difference for the clients and the audience you have chosen to serve, but also recognizing that we need to be real about what is possible.

So it's finding that balance, not leaning all one way or all the other way. And that's what the next chapter is about. It's finding that blend. And often we don't know what the ingredients might be without having someone outside ourselves to help us with a conversation. Which is what

Janine: you do for me. And that's a scary space though, right?

It's scary to have that conversation because it requires you to pause for a second, it requires you to take stock, and it requires you to actually [00:08:00] intentionally decide and take ownership of what that next chapter should be. In your work, what do you see that sort of, It stops people from doing that brave work that is needed to identify the next chapter.

What gets in the way for people?

Angela: It's uncertainty. You know, but interestingly enough, uncertainty is a need. We need to feel some uncertainty. We can't have same old, same old all the time for us to have fulfillment. But it's, it's that not knowing, which of course can be scary and exhilarating depending on which side of the coin you come in from.

But there's also a part of it is it depends on the financial imperatives of an individual because people I work with can be at one end of the spectrum where they're a single mom and that the buck stops with them. At the other end of the spectrum, I don't really have to work, but I want to. And so it depends on where you are in that spectrum will make that uncertainty either a higher degree of fear or a lower degree of fear.

But it [00:09:00] is the uncertainty. It's like, we want a crystal ball. We want a bit of a guarantee and we can't get that. And that uncertainty is quite often grounded in a limited view of what you think your capacity is, especially for women. And I know that might be an old, sort of an old chestnut to pull out, but.

But it is true. I mean, I've worked with women now and men as well, like men, married one, got boys, um, for sons. But, um, what I have seen by comparison is that we are far more likely to hold ourselves back and just not go out on that ledge quite as far compared to our male counterparts. And I think we need to learn to to back ourselves more.

And that comes from being sort of, one of the things that comes here is by reverse gapping yourself. Cause we're so often looking forward about how much further we have to go. If we actually turned around more often and considered how far we've come and actually appreciate that and see that evidence of what we have been capable of, we could use that [00:10:00] as future fuel.

So that's one part, but the other part is, is to be. in community with other women who are also dancing along this path so that we can understand that these doubts, these concerns are very common. We're not terminally unique. Other people have them too. And that lessens the grip that it has on us. So those two things to me are really important, the evidence and the community.

Janine: Yeah. And I love what you shared there because it does take the two because finding the evidence, other people can sometimes see it, but you can't see it yourself. And as you've heard me do many a times, I was running a session earlier this week and we had 10 incredible business owners on the call and I did my usual again, how long have you been doing what you're doing?

And it became apparent that, you know, on that one call we had almost. you know, 400, 500 years of experience between the lot of us. And it's that piece of that's the acknowledgement about understanding your own [00:11:00] personal genius roadmap of how you've got here, the, the things that you've learned, the challenges you've overcome, the skills you've acquired, the times when you wanted to give up, but you've pushed through and acknowledging what you've learned from that, to your point, we forget that stuff.

And instead we focus on what we don't have right now. And then that fuels that I can't move forward. So to your other point, surrounding yourself by people that can almost reflect you, show you, I, um, highlight for you how bloody amazing you are to essentially fuel you up, that's almost what can create that momentum.

I have this personal thing and I'm sure, you know, oh my gosh, I'm going to ask you in a second. Can you remember the time you did something that you were really scared of and looking back? I can remember when someone challenged me to write my first book and I did that. I can't do that. I can't write a book.

I stopped English at the age of [00:12:00] 16. I was like, okay, I'm my personality type is okay. If someone challenges me, I'll find a way. And I remember almost vomiting in my mouth when I submitted that first manuscript, and it's one of the scariest things I've done, to be honest, because putting your thoughts out into the big wide world with no idea who's going to pick it up, I found quite scary.

At the same time, I have this belief system that when I feel fear, I can either choose to give in to that fear, And keep still, or I can go, Ooh, maybe I'm a little bit curious. The fear is actually curiosity about what I may learn, what opportunity it may open up. And when I reflect on my past, every time I faced that fear and gone, seeing it as a learning opportunity, whether it works or doesn't, things have changed.

Someone said to me on it last week, how did you get to where you are? I'm going, none of it was planned. If you'd have asked me at 18, [00:13:00] would I be doing what I'm doing now? Like absolutely not. I wouldn't have had a clue. So I'm curious, Angel, for you, can you remember a moment where, you know, to that point of, the gap and surrounding yourself with, with people and how that changed.

Can you share with the listeners an example from your career?

Angela: Well, there's a couple of things that come up as you're talking that I'd like to just, I've written them down so I don't forget them, like, so they stay in my head. But one is a couple of quotes, and one which I particularly love was, It's that life is lived forwards, but understood backwards.

So we can't, as you're saying, you can't plan it. I mean, you can, you sort of plan, but you've got to have a flexible plan because you can't see stuff coming. And so when you turn around and you look at how you got to where you are, you are, it sort of makes sense, but you could never have chosen those steps.

And that I think comes so much from, I love the idea of embracing that curiosity because I heard that fear is only excitement without breathing. So like they feel physiologically, they feel incredibly similar in terms [00:14:00] of what they physically do to us. So if we remember to pause and breathe and that there is no tiger in the room, so you can do this thing, whether it be pushing submit on a book, a book proposal or whatever the case may be, we're going to be bigger on the other side of that growth edge.

But we just have to remind ourselves of that. And that's why having those people around us who can go, you can do this, you know, the cheerleaders. And what's really important is, is if we do get that lovely, positive feedback is allowing it to land, because it's very easy for us to dismiss it. And we need to integrate it so that we can become larger.

We can. take up more space, then the edge isn't so scary. A specific one I remember was, I've done some speaking and I find talking pretty easy, a bit of a, bit of a talker, but standing in front of people and actually sharing an opinion, a perspective, a point of view in a presentation sort of sense, like you were saying with your book, that's putting, putting yourself on the line.

And I'm very sensitive and I understand this as being, [00:15:00] um, late stage diagnosed as neurodiverse. My sensitivity to other people's opinions is very high. So on this particular occasion, I spoke at, it was years ago now, I spoke at, um, a boy's school to the mums. So it was a boy's private school on the Northern, on the North shore of Sydney.

And I was a Brené Brown, Freak at the time, just loved everything about her. And so I was very much talking about this concept of, of doing the thing that you've always wanted to do. And I remember my heart literally pounding in my chest as I was stepping out onto that stage that day, but I did it. And I remember leaving and the feeling, the elation, the punching the air, literally as I was driving out of my car, because I had, as that old saying goes, Felt the fear and did it anyway.

And then the coolest thing happened. And this is the stuff that we can never expect or anticipate. It was about six or eight months later, a package arrived in my office in Chatswood. Beautiful package. I undid it all. And there was all [00:16:00] these. gorgeous mist, like, um, aromatherapy mist. And I was like, okay, this is nice, but where have they come from?

Then I saw the wee card that was in the box. And it was from a woman who said, I was in the theater that day, when you told us to do the thing that we've always wanted to do, that we could do it, we should back ourselves. I've always wanted to start this business. And I did, and these are the results, and I want you to have them.

And I remember, like, I, I've still got on the wall the card, I've got a, what I call a fabulous file over here on the wall with lots of evidence, evidence as we talked about. But the, the head of that, I could never have predicted. the impacts that I could have on someone and everyone listening. I really want us to all understand that, that we have invisible impacts and it's only by putting ourselves onto those growth edges and giving it a go that we can start those sort of ripples that make a huge difference.

I actually order her myths all the time and give them to clients because it [00:17:00] just feels really, really right. And that never would have happened if I hadn't, you know, screwed up that courage and gone, okay, I'm not going to do this perfectly. Like, I'm going to forget stuff, like that I want to say, but that's okay.

I can get out there and give it my best shot and I'm so glad I did. So glad I did. I'd love to

Janine: talk about this concept of growth edges. You wrote a piece, uh, recently on LinkedIn where you talked about whether businesses, whether our businesses were meeting our essential needs. You posed that question, is your business meeting your essential needs?

And you listed six things, certainty, uncertainty. Significance, love and connection, growth and contribution. I'd love you to talk a little bit to those, you know, because I'm imagining this is what comes up in your work. When you're starting to identify that next chapter, why have you pulled out those key things as being an aesthetic?

Essential part of building a business that you love.

Angela: They [00:18:00] came from Tony Robbins and a woman, what was her name? Um, Chloe Mendon, I think. And they were talking about how those six things are essential for a well lived life, a full life. And I was just thinking, well, what about if we looked through the lens of business and actually looked at those needs through Our businesses, cause I don't know about you.

Well, actually I do. If you have your own business, it can become such a big part of your world, a business, a practice, a consultancy. I know my sister switches off at five o'clock when she leaves the office, which is absolutely fine. I don't like it's always there in my head. So it's a big part of my world.

Much like my husband has a business as well. So. It's really important after that experience, when I had ideas into action, it was not filling my essential needs. And that's why it wasn't sustainable. That's why it was burning me out. That's why I was having this feeling of resentment towards it. And that's, you know, that's not a good place to be.

So [00:19:00] the reason I wanted to highlight these was just for people to consider, because we don't have to, we can recalibrate our businesses. We don't have to reinvent them. To make sure that they are serving us because my philosophy is your business should serve you as much as you serve your clients. That's the only way for it to be sustainable.

So if we think about the certainty piece, it's knowing what you stand for. It's knowing who you serve. It's knowing that the value that you create, that there is a desire for it. Because I think we can sometimes get mixed up between our worth. I charge what you're worth. Well, that's silly. Cause like you're priceless, right?

But charge for the value that you create and be certain about the value that you create. You can put a price tag on that. Absolutely. But then that second one, that uncertainty, that's the variety piece. Like, if we're just same old, same old, same old every day, then that, that frisson, that, that energy, that thing that keeps you on the edge with curiosity, that just wears [00:20:00] off.

So we need that degree of, of uncertainty and that's about the growth edge. It's about trying something new. I heard a great quote once, Karen Gunton, a woman I think in Adelaide, um, said, it's not a tattoo. As in take a chance, right? It's not a tattoo. You can change it. And I love the way that you encourage us in Elevate to always experiment, try things, hold it lightly.

So that to me is the same sort of feeling with that uncertainty. The significance. Well, we really, we want to feel that what we're doing has meaning for others. Like otherwise it feels a bit empty. So that significance, that feeling that I'm making a difference is, um, is important and love and connection.

Well, I think that I've noticed more and more lately is how so many of us are tired of working in isolation. Now I know COVID was a long time ago and it was a novelty in terms of when we were. Isolated. I use that word novelty very lightly, but we don't want to work in [00:21:00] silos. I run dinners and lunches for women, next chapter dinners and lunches in different places.

And the conversations we have there when you're in that space, women aren't like holding back. They're not wanting to see everyone as competition. We want to collaborate and that doesn't have to mean we're going to form partnerships and work together on projects. It can simply mean we're happy to open the book and have a conversation.

This is what I'm feeling. This is what I'm trying. This is what I'm saying. And just sitting, I sit back occasionally when I'm hosting these and just watching and going, this is so cool because these women are so open and they're, and hungry for connection. So you need that. That love and connection within your business.

I hope you like your clients. You don't have to love them, but I hope you really like them because if you're working with them every day, so that's about making decisions about who will I serve and taking care of yourself. If someone doesn't feel right, if something's not resonating, you don't have [00:22:00] to choose to work with those people.

Uh, you have agency in that respect, so you can see all those essential needs to me that they make sense. They make sense. Then when you cross over the line, those are like the basic ones you cross over the line into growth and contribution, which I've already touched on, but without those, without feeling as though I'm learning new things and, and passing those onto my clients, I get bored.

Like I need to grow. I believe that's what we're here for is to grow and help others to grow in whatever capacity that you have your business. That's what we're here for. And ultimately, without that sense of contribution, as though we are making a contribution to our industry, to our sector, to our clients, without that sense of contribution, I think again that you can feel as though there isn't real purpose there.

And purpose with a little P. Don't get all tied up with purpose paralysis, like what is my purpose? Right? Your purpose is to help the person right in front of you in the way [00:23:00] that you can. And that feels good. I know when I get off a call from a client and I've made a difference for them, that feels good.

That is an essential need for me to feel as though I am making that contribution. That feels good. And I want that feeling. It's important to me. It's a, it's an essential need.

Janine: Those six needs of certainty, uncertainty, thank you for explaining the difference, significance, love and connection, growth and contribution are an awesome way to almost do that piece that you were talking about right at the beginning of just stopping, pausing and working out if a recalibration is needed.

Because as you were talking and describing those, I was reflecting on my Business journey and going, yeah, every single time I've reinvented, change something up, shut something down. It's always been when [00:24:00] one or more of those things is being wobbly. Something's being wobbly and I've been able to connect with it.

You know, if there's people listening to this and they're going, Oh my gosh, that's me right now. I mean, I've got this great business, it's working, I've got clients, but if that but is coming in or that question is coming in, I'm really curious, first of all, to understand what you're seeing with the clients that you work with right now, number one.

And the second part of this is. Is what, if anyone is listening and they are feeling wobbly on any of those, what suggestions do you have for them to help them get some more clarity on their next chapter and what next looks like for them? So two parts to that question. And the two parts

Angela: are, they're interrelated because actually in the book that I wrote, which was, which was a wee while ago, it was my lockdown project because I was no good at baking sourdough.

I talked about the discontent [00:25:00] continuum, where at one end of the discontent continuum, it's like, just a bit like, Things aren't quite right. And then you move along to the other end, the far end of the, of the continuum is like, I'm going to literally tear my hair out if something doesn't change. And there's steps all in between.

So it's like the first step is to look inwards. That's like, how am I feeling? And is it definitely related to my business? Because it could be something else that's going on. That's discombobulating you. So it's understanding how you are feeling about things. Then what I'm noticing, and what I also recommend is not to make hasty decisions.

Now, like scouts honor, I'm really trying to improve there because impulsivity is, is one of my things, which I'm learning to get around, but I'm noticing with my own clients, they're taking more care with the decisions. They're contemplating a little more, like making measured decisions. And so that relates to both sides.

Don't do something impulsively and really quickly, because again, it comes back [00:26:00] to your financial imperatives as well. When I stopped Ideas Into Action to move into mentoring and facilitation, I didn't just like kick all the clients out and say, I've had it with you all, goodbye. Because that would have been foolish because I would have had zero revenue.

So I. took some clients which I really liked and they were my investor clients who invested in me. my description. They didn't know that whilst I was building the next chapter. So that was important. So you don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It's recalibration, not, not, you know, reinvention to that extent.

So what I'm noticing is that. If you think about the Ansoff matrix, where in terms of new products, new markets, et cetera, et cetera, how am I going to develop? People are doing more about how can I change the services that I have so that they give me more of that feeling of significance and growth and contribution, or how might I change the market or the audience that I'm taking these services to?

So it's really [00:27:00] looking at things. I like thinking about putting your business on the coffee table. And walk all around it. Look at it from each angle. And I actually have a great, a resource, which, um, perhaps I can point to that would be useful in terms of this evaluation. But that's the key thing that I'm saying is that you don't have to dive out into something completely new.

You can start with this recalibration of what you have. I do see it. An accountant becomes a Reiki healer. I mean, some people do really change their direction, but more likely people pivot a wee bit. You know, I was running an agency that implemented for medium sized businesses. And now I do strategy and mentoring for women who are running Reiki.

Smaller consultancies, practices of businesses. So quite similar, but I'm, I work directly with the business owner as opposed to with the team, which is where I used to be. So it wasn't that I suddenly became a circus performer cause I didn't like what I was doing. [00:28:00] I made that move and I took the services to a different audience.

So that sort of thing I think is incredibly important when you're first thinking about Not happy Jan, what do I do? So I would start small with that sort of analysis and then make some changes

Janine: from there. Which is exactly what we did together as well, isn't it? I love that. Remember you sent him the message going.

It's recalibration. I'm like, yeah, it is. And it circles back to what we started talking about, where, you know, your backstory, I think you said, we don't often identify for ourselves how it all connects, but it's only when we look back and we go, Oh my gosh, that makes absolute sense. And then

Angela: not being able to see the spot you're standing on.

I needed your eyes to help me see what was right in front of my nose. Cause you and I've talked about this before and it wouldn't be the first time people have spoken about it is that we take for granted what we do. Well, we dismiss our strengths. And what we're doing in so many [00:29:00] ways, because they come so easily, we don't place the same amount of value on them.

Or we don't see that slight move over there and look at it from this angle. It's like, drop the mic. You're right. I could do that. And that's why that community and those mentors are so important. You know, I wouldn't want to be unsupported in business ever.

Janine: And what I love about what you shared today and this concept of your essential needs is that's a constantly evolving thing.

As our businesses grow, as we grow, as we transition, those needs flex and change. Through both the growth of the business and the growth of ourselves. And what I'm hearing in your work is essentially a permission that you give to business owners to reset what next is about. Like that whole thing, just because she can doesn't mean you should.

Just because you have doesn't [00:30:00] mean you need to do that moving forward. Um, what I'm hearing through all of your work is this, this permission that you give to the clients that you work with, the business owners that you work with to take ownership of what their next chapter is all about. And with that in mind, as we sort of wrap up today, Angela, why is it so important?

in your mind that as incredible business owners, it's not easy building a business. It's really isn't like, you're one of the few percent that has suddenly put your heart and soul, your cash, the risk into your business. Um, you know, I go to the other week, I think on our coaching call, it'd be, it's way easier to get a job and have an IT person helping you and, uh, somebody cleaning the office and somebody managing your people challenges, like to some extent, when we look back in times that are difficult in our business, you go, Oh my God, why am I doing this?

It's a choice that we make. And [00:31:00] so there's, there's all these incredible business owners out there that have set off with a dream and a vision to create something for themselves. Why is it so important that the decisions that are made from today onwards? Are the decisions that they want to own, that they want to get behind, that they, they are choosing to put their time, their energy, their effort, their cash behind, that they're doing it on their terms.

Why is it so important that their next chapter is one that they've taken ownership of?

Angela: It's such a big question. It's such a big question and it's, it's like a mosaic. There's lots and lots of pieces in it, but that feeling and everybody knows this feeling if you run a business now and you get off a call or you leave a meeting or you finish your retreat or whatever it is, however it is that you deliver what you do and you've had that real connection and you've like the people that you've worked with have had a breakthrough, whatever the scenario is.

And that feeling. of fulfillment [00:32:00] is massive. It could fuel me for months. To me, it's like a trilogy. It's, we need a sense of contribution, fulfillment, and financial reward. Those three have got to come together. So there's that feeling and you tie that to the, So much research that tells us that our wellbeing, our ability to age well, physically, mentally, emotionally, and all of those ways comes from this feeling of purpose comes from this feeling of, I am contributing something.

I am doing something with my skills. That's making a difference for others. That feeling is what absolutely fuels our wellbeing over time. So if you take those two pieces together, that feeling of agency, that feeling of fulfillment, that feeling of contribution, you've got a much happier human. And I think it's important for us to have happy humans, incredibly important.

So if you've chosen to go down this path of business ownership, accepting that it is not going to be a linear path, accepting [00:33:00] that there are going to be ups and downs, And also celebrating the fact that the sense of purpose and the sense of fulfillment, there's nothing quite like it. Now I've, I've been in my own business since I was 31 and I'm 55.

So it's a long time. So maybe I'm like a bit biased, but to me, there's nothing quite like it. And if you've chosen this path, it's because you have this feeling and this capacity of capability and wanting to impact. And so giving yourself permission to show up. In the way that you want to, to serve the people that you want, that's honoring yourself.

And when you come from that place, you will do your best work. And that's what it's all about. Your growth and the growth of others. The last thing really for here is I say to people, you can borrow my belief in you until you have it for yourself. Because we can see as just as you saw in me and I see in my clients.

We can see your capabilities, [00:34:00] your capacity, because we don't have access to that nasty little voice in your head. We can't hear it. So what we can see for you is never, ever constrained by that self doubt. So like I said, there's a lot of pieces to the mosaic, but that's, um, that's how I

Janine: feel about it. And that is an awesome way to end this conversation.

That point about seeing more in other people than they see in themselves is where the opportunity for creating that next phase of their business growth is. Thank you so much, Angela. Oh my gosh, there's so much goodness and yumminess and deliciousness in here. Um, really appreciate you gifting your time.

Thank you for everything that you do for the clients that are in your world. Thank you. It was a delight to chat with you. Thanks, Janine. [00:35:00]