Intuition as Your Edge: Smarter Leadership with Chandu Bickford

Hello,

Janine Garner here.

Welcome to another episode

of Unleashing Brilliance,

and today we're unlocking

a power source that you

can carry everywhere.

And that power

source is intuition.

I'm not talking

woo or guesswork.

I'm talking about your

built in strategy engine.

You see spreadsheets,

they'll tell you what it is.

But it's intuition that

whispers what's next?

The rebel move.

Well, that's about

quitting outsourcing your

knowing the magician move.

Well, that's about turning a

gut flicker a shower, thought

a wake up in the middle of

the night moment into one

precise step that you can

defend in the boardroom.

Meetings with the people

that you're speaking to.

My guest today is the

incredible Chandu Bickford.

She helps leaders,

individuals, organizations,

many boardrooms, navigate

pressure with clarity.

And today we're gonna

talk about how to make

intuition practical.

Why it matters now

more so than ever.

And how by using intuition

versus anxiety, you can

make better decisions.

You can have a curious

mind that will ultimately

create a transformational

outcome for you and for

the ripples of change

that outcome will affect.

So settle in and

enjoy today's episode.

Hello Chendu.

Welcome to today's podcast.

I'm so excited

to have you here.

How are you today?

I'm really

well, thanks, Janine.

Thanks for having me along.

Oh yeah.

I'm so excited about

this conversation

on so many levels.

Uh, we were just talking

offline around how we met.

I think it was

about 12 months ago.

But we've been in each

other's worlds via.

Social media for a while,

in terms of following and

keeping our eye on each other.

And the time that we met

you were in, um, one of the

rooms that I pulled together.

I think it was a, a mastermind

room I was doing, and I

can still remember your,

statement where you said,

it was around, I've got this

work to do and I don't wanna.

Leave this planet with

the music inside of me.

And that's why I'm so excited

to have you on this podcast

today because your passion,

your, your everything you

do, and every time I hear

you speak and every time you

gift our community, uh, with

your words of wisdom, you

create this massive shift.

And I'm super excited

for our listeners to

experience the scene today.

So let's get straight into it.

Now you, you talk

predominantly about

the power of intuition.

And how it can be such

a practical compass,

particularly during seasons

of change or when we're in

place of flux or an inflection

point in life or business.

my question to you, because

I'm sure everyone's got

a version in their head,

a definition in their

head of what intuition

actually looks like.

I'm curious from your

perspective, first of

all, what does intuition

actually look like?

And my second part to

this question is how do we

actually know that it's not

fear or bias in disguise?

Oh, great question.

And you know,

really multilayered.

Intuition for me

feels very personal.

It's really unique to the

person who's experiencing it.

Yeah.

So some people you were going,

what does, your question was

what does intuition look like?

Intuition might look like,

synchronicity or a sign Yeah.

Or some sort of coincidences

happening for some people,

intuition might sound like

a piece of information

coming to you, like a, a

voice that kind of says, oh.

Call that person, or here's

an idea, follow up with

this, or drive down that

street now walk into that

library, or whatever it is.

Intuition might feel like,

a, a sensation that, oh, that

feels right, that feels true,

there's a kind of a, a unique

internal sense of knowing.

So see how there's a

kind of a look and a see

and a feel or a hear of

what intuition might be.

It can be different for

different people, but what I

find it is a sense of knowing

without really knowing how

you know does that make sense?

Absolutely

Yeah.

It's a sense that this,

this feels like the thing

I. I need the information

I needed to know, the

idea I needed to make.

Particularly you think in

business, like we are often

having a lot of ideas or

insights, conversations,

but sometimes they just

resonate a little bit more

or they hit a bit closer

to home or to the bone.

Oh, totally needed

to hear that.

Might read it in a book.

A line in a book, and you

go, oh my gosh, that's

the piece of information.

Yeah.

So the second part

of the question was

How do we

know it's not fear.

or bias in disguise?

Yeah.

One of the key areas for me,

my understanding of working

with intuition, I realized

next month, it's December.

It's 30 years since I

first started actively

working with my intuition.

1995 was when I started.

That was when I first got my

really big hit of it and made

decisions according to that.

That changed my life.

One of the, the key things

around whether it's kind

of fear or bias is a

degree of self-awareness.

When we are functioning from

a place of unconsciousness

or reactivity or knee jerking

into things, we are often

not working at that deeper

level of self-awareness.

So our emotions can kick

in and we'll get scared or

our emotions will come in

and we'll be seduced into,

oh, that feels so good.

Let me do that.

our biases are often

The surface as well.

And so the more self-awareness

we have and the more we can

pause before we react or

respond or step into making

a decision, even if it's a

momentary decision, if there's

a moment of pause where we.

Dropping back from that

instant head decision

strategy, you know how to

move forward, or that heart,

emotion, fear, excitement,

seduction, whatever it

might be, we can actually

tap more deeply into what's

sitting beneath the surface

in the gut and that.

That requires a certain

level of self-awareness.

It requires a certain level

of ability to detach from the

moment of thinking or feeling

and dropping into, okay, yes,

I'm feeling excited about

this, or I'm feeling scared.

I'm thinking that I need to

do these things, but you drop

down to that next level of,

but what do I know about it?

What's really going on under

the surface here, because

sometimes something can

look shiny and great and

feel exciting and it can

make sense to our brain, but

inside we're going, no, I'm

just not sure about that.

Hmm.

I wanna come back

to that in a second.

Particularly, I'm curious

from your perspective about,

you know, what's getting

in the way and why this

is something that's so.

Important as when

navigating this changing

landscape of business.

But before I do, you

mentioned there, you touched

very briefly there on, this

has been 30 years that.

you've been working in this

space, and the back in 19 95,

30 years ago was when you had

that first hit of intuition.

And I'm absolutely sure my

listeners are going, Janine,

I wanna hear about that.

So, so tell us more about

that, about that moment,

about what changed for

you 30 years ago that

set you on this course.

what got you there,

what you noticed through

working in this way.

Yeah.

So what got me there was,

a young woman who I was at

that time who was driven

and following society's

great ideas of the great

Australian dream left school.

went into nursing, studied

nursing, worked in nursing,

got married, built the house,

the picket fence, studied

art on the side, built the

art studio, did the whole

great Australian dream.

Following the society or

expectations and my own,

you know, we talk about

bias here, my own ideas of

what I thought I should do

and creating a space that

once I got there, I just

went, oh gosh, is this it?

Like, even though it looked

good on the outside and

logically it was good

HeartWise, it was great,

but there was something in

me which was misaligned.

I wasn't aligned with

part of my truth.

And what happened was I

became, I became quite

depressed over a period

of months and then into

years, and that led me to

this really clunky place of

feeling very alone, feeling

very unsure of my decisions,

feeling very misaligned.

You know, I've created

this great life.

I should be happy, I should

feel successful, and I don't.

And.

I didn't know where to go

or what to do with that, but

I just knew enough to know

this isn't for me anymore.

And so I made some very bold

and and very heartbreaking

decisions to step away from

that life, step away from

my relationship, my home,

and eventually my job, and

as I created more space.

Full of heartbreak and

confusion and despair.

There was also these

moments of wow.

Okay.

Now I don't have to

follow that path.

I'm not exactly sure what

lines up, but I don't

have to follow that path.

What might be here.

And it was in those moments

of spaciousness and quietness

that I first started

getting those real hits.

My intuition was speaking

to me through, you know,

my dissatisfaction,

my restlessness, my

uncertainty, but I didn't

have the self-awareness to.

Understand that.

All I felt was the, you know,

if you come back to what you

were saying about emotion,

all I felt was the pain.

All I felt was the hollowness

and the emptiness and that,

I'm not fitting into my life,

even though I've created it.

So stepping back from that

and creating some space gave

a part of me permission to

listen a bit more deeply,

because I wasn't now chugging

like a train on a track

that wasn't for me anymore.

I didn't know where

the train was going.

There actually, there weren't

even tracks built for it, so

there was a lot of sitting

in tension around that.

And what

decisions did you make?

Where did that.

intuition lead you?

the first time

I got a really strong

hit of my intuition was

I'd moved out of the house

I'd just built, um, was

renting with a girlfriend

and her little baby.

I had a pup and we had

a kitten and a cockatiel

flying around the house.

It was, you know,

it was quite crazy.

But I remember it was

a Saturday afternoon.

It was sunny.

I was in the house on my own.

I'd washed my nursing

uniforms and I was hanging

them in my wardrobe.

Very mundane, no

brain thinking.

And I had, I noticed there

was a dialogue going on in

my head that was like, okay,

like look at you, you're

kind of feeling pretty happy

and you're playing house.

Is this really

what you wanted?

Like you've moved out of

one house and one lifestyle

into another house.

And I noticed, I started

witnessing that this dialogue

was going on in my head,

and then this voice just

kind of appeared and said,

why don't you go to Africa

and to a 24-year-old nurse

in the Blue Mountains,

that was like, what?

Saying like, why

don't you go to Mars?

it was so foreign and so.

Out of this world for me, but

it was almost like someone

had thrown a bucket of cold

water on me and just kind

of completely woken me up

from the dream of me now

just kind of redoing the

dream in a different way.

if that makes sense.

absolutely.

Did you go to Africa?

I did.

I did.

It seemed ridiculous but

because it came with such

a degree of clarity and I

just decided to stay open

to it because I knew I

couldn't rebuild, I could

rebuild a life here, but.

It didn't feel true.

So eventually, and you

know, different things

happened and I met different

people who traveled

there and lived there.

And, oh, and this travel

agent just happens to,

you know, all these little

breadcrumbs started on the

trail and I opened to it.

I remained curious about it.

I didn't shut it down,

I just went, even though

it was, you know, at the

time, seemingly ridiculous.

So I just opened to it

and about seven months

later, I bought a ticket

and dawned a backpack.

And quit my job and said

I'm going overseas for

seven months and I didn't

move back for 12 years.

12 years.

And in that 12 years, 'cause

I know this backstory and I

can't wait 'cause you are in

the middle of writing this

to share with the world.

in that 12 years you

didn't live in a nice, cozy

apartment in some fabulous

city location in Africa.

Did you tell us quickly

a little bit about where

you spent those years.

Yeah, so the

first year and a half

I did a lot of travel.

I moved through nine

different countries in Africa.

I was, you know, camping.

Really traveling, very

rough, lots of illness,

lots of moving around.

I went overseas to, um,

India, Nepal, and Tibet where

I did a lot of spiritual

work and meditation.

Developed a lot of practices,

but eventually I did go back

to Africa and I ended up

settling in a, um, very small.

Remote village in Tanzania,

in the Highlands where,

you know, we lived in

a little mud hut with a

thatched roof and a piece of

corrugated iron for a door.

carried water, half

a kilometer, two

buckets for two years.

Um, had two buckets

a day for two years.

Two full flushes

of the toilet.

So yeah, like washing at

night outside, standing

over a bucket and collecting

that water and pouring it

over us and then collecting

that water to wash clothes

in the next day was,

yeah, it was very remote.

And I think that's where I

really, that's where I first

understood the, the real sense

of leadership and business.

Because I got to immerse

myself in the tribal

women and see where they.

You know, look at what their

opportunities were and also

what their lack was, and

see how enterprising they

were and how connected to

the seasons they were as

yeah.

Okay.

Gosh, I've got so many

questions for you.

Before we come back to

intuition, I just wanna

pick up on that that's where

you, you said something

that about, you know, that's

where you first started

becoming very interested

and aware of leadership

and decision making.

you reflect on the time and

the significant amount of

time you spent there, what

are, I don't know, the, the

key learnings that you bring

back into your work now?

gosh, there's so many.

But if I was to, break

it down, One of the key

things was around seasons.

And it, it's not, I mean,

of course we lived, you

know, if we didn't have

rain and we didn't sew at

the right time, we didn't,

like if we didn't sew in

November and the rains didn't

come, we didn't eat in May.

Like it was that simple.

and not just for me, for,

you know, the village

for the whole regions.

So the seasons, but not

just the seasons of weather

and the environment,

the unique seasons that

we have in our lives.

You know, we might be,

we might be in a season

of having young children.

We might be in a season of

business growth, we might be

in a season of, career change.

We might be in a season of

relationship or health change.

So I think the seasons

and the seasons of change

became very, very, Forefront

in my life because I

was living them daily.

You know, we didn't have

electricity, so you went to

bed when it got dark and you

got up when the sun came up.

And, and I did that for years.

So the levels of the

seasons of change and

how we adapt to them.

I think the other thing was

there was definitely a piece

around privilege, there

are places in life where we

have opportunities and how

we use those opportunities,

not just for ourselves,

but also to serve others.

And that was something

that became very

prevalent in my work.

And, and my first business,

I didn't know anything about

business, but I started one

called Women in Our Area.

So definitely the

seasons of change.

the understanding of

opportunities and, how we can

impact and make a difference

through acts of service.

I think there is a third one

around trusting ourselves to

make choices in times and not

doing it from that place of

just strategically thinking

or just feeling, but actually.

What is true, what is

really true, and you

know, years just sitting

under the tree shelling

peanuts, you know, having

mangoes fall on the ground.

That level of silence.

That level of isolation, that

level of sitting with nature

and therefore sitting with the

nature of myself, has really

helped me in my work and

bring that into my work with

my clients and my programs

because we don't get a lot

of time and we are not taught

how to sit with ourselves and

listen for what's true for.

And that's,

you know, this work.

You talk about the

work that you do.

you know, these lessons

that you bring back into

boardrooms with women's

retreats that you're currently

running in the Blue Mountains

here in Australia through

your coaching programs.

And as I briefly shared,

I know there's some, uh,

some great publications

and books coming.

you also talked a

minute ago about.

Intuition speaks to

you if you let it.

So I'd like to sort of

bring these, these two

things together now for our

listeners around, first up,

from your perspective, from

what you are now seeing,

what is the opportunity

that exists for us as

business owners, as

leaders, as executives?

To start listening, this

intuition speaks to you

to start listening a

little bit more closely,

a little bit more deeply.

What's the opportunity, and I

guess the, you know, converse,

the opportunity is what are

we putting at risk by not

listening to our intuition?

Mm-hmm.

I think the opportunity is

that intuition isn't new.

Yeah.

If we go back through time,

intuition has been used by

healers leaders, medicine

women and men in ancient

communities and First Nations

people all over the world.

They used it as a sense,

they used it as a tool

that helped round out

their decision making.

And so I think that the

opportunity to use our

intuition is an opportunity

for us to, you know.

Access the supercomputer.

That's our brain.

To access the amazing

structures and infrastructure

that we have and that we've

learned, and we can learn and

implement with our intellect.

You know, we are talking so

much more around emotional

intelligence now as well.

So, you know, we are going

from this, you know, this

intellectual intelligence

into emotional intelligence

and activating and using

and being more, being

more aware of that.

How we feel about things,

what's going on in our body.

That intuition adds to that

whole spectrum of being able

to assess what's actually

going on for us, review how

we've gone with something

and how we, you know, we

do all this in business, we

do all this in leadership,

but how holistically

are we looking at that?

What are we bringing to?

The question that I ask

is, What other intelligence

can I be bringing to this?

What other perspective

or viewpoint can I be

bringing when I'm thinking

about moving forward?

We are not just, you know,

we are not just thinking

about performance here.

We are thinking

about longevity.

We are thinking

about sustainability.

We are thinking about not

just how this affects,

you know, the company

or the organization.

How does this

affect the people?

On all those different levels

because, you know, we can

just, oh, you can, we can

replace things that break

down or we can replace people.

But you, we, you

would see this all

the time in your work.

When we pause and really look

at all the dimensions, we get

a much more whole picture.

And the risk is that when we

continue to kind of what I

call work above the eyebrows.

And we are only working in

the strategy and the how

or if we're only coming

from the heart where we

are functioning from just a

place of emotion or feeling.

The the risk is that we

might be missing a vital

piece or vital pieces of

information or the puzzle

that may support longevity,

sustainability, and.

Those incredible moments

of inspired ideas, which,

you know, sometimes come

out of nowhere when you're

hanging something in your

wardrobe or, you know,

driving long distance.

Yeah,

yeah, It's that

whole thing, isn't it?

Is I have my best

thinking in the shower.

that's the intuition.

so, because I know we've,

we've spoken about this in

our, uh, mutual group of

amazing women that we work

with, and the question that

comes up, which I'm sure

listeners are also asking

is, so, so how, how do

I tap into my intuition?

I think there's a,

a sense, there's a

sense of knowing that.

it makes sense that It

that, that there is.

an opportunity, as you said,

to talk to see the different

perspectives so that we're

making more holistic decisions

in our own businesses, in

our families, in our lives.

when you are working with

people, when you're working

with leaders and business

owners, how do you help them?

Listen to their intuition.

You talked about

intuition speaks to you.

You talked about it takes a

level of self-awareness, so,

so how do people get there?

What, what tips do you have

for people listening in now,

the way they could start?

'cause I appreciate it's a

practice as well, but what

would you say to people

to get curious about or to

explore or where to start?

Yeah, great question.

Great question.

And there's a number

of layers to it.

the, the first two I

think are having an open

mind and an open heart.

And, you know, whenever

I'm leading groups, doesn't

matter how, you know, how

intellectual the group is

or how, you know, retreat

orientated it might be.

There's that sense of, come

with a sense of curiosity.

Be curious.

You know, we are, we are

often and we are trained

to be very strategic

and to nail things in.

What if we just

hold it lightly?

Yeah.

You know, it's not a matter,

I've gotta have this sorted

out by close of business.

You know, it's, as

you rightly said, like

those shower thoughts.

Yeah, they're gold.

So first of all, I

think having an open

mind and an open heart

is, is very important.

Maintaining curiosity and.

You know, like if you are

brainstorming something,

there's no wrong answer.

We are just putting it

all down on the page.

We're putting it all

out on the whiteboard.

There's no wrong idea.

It's giving ourselves

permission to not

have to be right.

I think the second thing

around our intuition is

that our intuition is

always available to us.

It's always there,

but we are busy.

We've got a lot of

noise in our life.

We've got a lot

of distractions.

We've got a lot of

opportunities to

dull ourselves, and

there's a lot of drama.

So these are the things

that are going on.

So removing ourselves from

the dullness, the things that

dull us down, the scrolling,

the screens, the, the endless

kind of pushing of ourselves,

looking at where our

distractions are, and actually

creating what I call times

of defra and decompression.

Yeah.

People might say,

you know, oh, I can't

meditate or whatever.

Okay, so you can't meditate,

but can you quietly wash up?

Just pay attention to that.

Can you go into the garden

and, and just do some

sweeping of the footpath

without having a podcast

on or without having music?

Can you just walk for 15

minutes, you know, even from

work to the train or something

and just be walking without

going over the, you know, so

giving yourself those moments

where we are removing the,

the distractions or the drama.

That is a practice.

It's like lifting weights.

It's like playing

tennis or playing piano.

It takes time.

We are not gonna

get it perfect.

But when we create that

regularly, that gives us

quieter moments and nervous

system settles down the noise

settles down and we can start.

To hear out those inner

voices, those inspired ideas,

those moments of clarity.

Yeah.

Sometimes it might not be that

it's gonna break open, oh,

I've gotta go and, you know,

start a whole new business

or something like that.

Sometimes it might be, oh,

I really need to call Carol.

You know, like, it doesn't

have to be, I dunno who

Carol is, but it could

be any, you know, like

it might be that simple.

But definitely open mind,

open heart, reducing

the outer distractions.

And then trusting, like going,

okay, that's come up you

know, and sometimes we might

judge it, oh, that feels hard.

I don't wanna have

that conversation.

you know, why would

I choose to do that?

But just trusting and going,

okay, that's something.

it's really

interesting as you're talking,

one of the, the biggest

shifts, that I've seen.

I would say definitely in

the last sort of two to three

years post pandemic, and

I've been talking to a lot

of clients and leaders about

this, is that there is such

an increasing amount of noise

in the market, in the world

at a macro level, and what

I've seen post pandemic is it

is filtering down at break.

Next speed into individuals,

into families, into the

home, and coming at us

from all directions.

And we cannot, you know,

simply blame social

media or the fact that.

We're doing five people's

jobs or the, you know, there's

increasing demand on results.

The reality is it is,

and it's everywhere.

And so this piece that you

talk about of, of defragging

and, and slowing down,

I've been speaking quite

a bit with people about,

we've actually gotta work

even harder at that stuff

because if we're trying to.

Uncover, unlock the advice,

the strategic advice, the

ideas, the decisions, the

plans that are the right

decisions to move forward

or to lead people forward

or to change things.

That's not gonna

happen in the chaos.

and so I'm noticing that

there is this increasing.

there's almost like

a knowing again, is

the intuition, right?

There's knowing that

I've gotta slow down,

I've gotta slow down,

I've gotta slow down.

I don't think people have

necessarily understood why,

they have to slow down.

And what I love about

what you've just shared

is, actually there is an

opportunity that exists and

it is actually a leadership

opportunity that exists in.

Finding space to just move

a little bit more slowly

through the world, through

meetings, through making

decisions to unlock that next.

And I'm curious from your

perspective, why do you

think it is so important?

Why do we need this?

Right now, you know, I look

at, I hear your passion,

and I see the work that

you do, and I know this

is, there's a deeper reason

as to why you work in this

space, and I'd love you

to share why, why this

matters so much in business

right now, or amongst the

leaders that you work with.

Why, why it's so important

that we're prepared to do

this work and to, try hard,

like you said, have an open

mind and an open heart.

embedded throughout all

of that with curiosity,

and again, it's, it's

the invitation, but why,

why is it so important?

because we're

facing, and I don't have the

statistics in front of me.

But we are facing

record levels of stress

in the workplace.

We are facing record

levels of burnout.

We are facing record

levels of suicide,

particularly in in men.

Uh, we are facing record

levels of domestic violence.

we are facing stresses around

housing, cost of living.

You know, we don't just have

pressures in the workplace.

we don't just have, and

workplaces aren't putting

pressures on their staff

just because they've got

nothing better to do.

They've got KPIs, they've

got goals, they've got,

profits and losses.

They've got accountability.

So we are facing in our lives

right now, where there's been

an upping of the ante and I

feel like we look out at the

world, we can see, you know.

Incredible species loss in the

world and environmental sense.

We can feel it in our homes.

The incredible

tension that's there.

We can feel it in our bodies

that there's a lot of tension.

You know, I'm not interested

in change for change sake.

I'm interested in

sustainable change.

Change that's going

to not just touch us.

Bottom line in our

business, for example.

And that's important, or not

just in our relationships,

but in that whole package.

And what I see a lot in my

work, because I, I straddle

this area between personal

development and professional

development, this personal

leadership and professional

development that we spend

and invest a lot in our

professional development.

We, we focus heavily on that.

But that doesn't necessarily

equate to us understanding

who we are, understanding

each other and understanding

how we work and how

better we can serve.

And when we actually

pay attention to those

things, we've got much more

possibility to, Work with the

stresses that are around us.

'cause if we identify,

come back to your

bias before and fears.

I mean they're two

massive drivers for us.

All of us of, you know, are

facing internally challenges

and externally challenges and

they're bumping up against

each other all the time.

When we are more

self-aware around that

and we are more able to,

Notice it and name it.

We are more able to

actively deal with it and

take action, which isn't

just positive for us.

It's positive for

the people around us.

It's positive for our

professions, and it's

positive for the planet.

For me, that's the reason

why everything will start.

You know, you drop the

pebble and it ripples out.

we have the opportunity to

make the change within us.

Hmm.

The opportunity,

therefore, to make

the change around us.

If you come back to the

circle of control or

the circle of influence,

it starts here anyway.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, Chando.

I love it.

Have you, um, you know,

you've, you've worked.

With many leaders,

lots of women.

Um, as I said earlier,

you've run retreats, you've

spoken on stages, you've

helped sat in boardrooms.

Do you have a favorite

example that you are able

to share of that shift

that happened for a client

around where they were at?

When they started listening

to their intuition and,

as you said, looking at

the problem from multiple

dimensions, coming at it from

a different solution and a

result to show how powerful

this is as a human skill, but

equally as a leadership skill

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love that.

And, uh, like there's about

7,000 that come to mind,

but I'm going to go with

my intuitive hit, which

is around a professional

woman that I've, I've

worked with for a number of

years, super high achieving,

super driven like her.

She's so intelligent

and articulate.

And, you know, she was

suffering with like

migraines twice a week.

She was showing up for,

um, she was working in,

in corporate at the time,

in a, in a management

role, leadership role.

She had two kind of just

teenage kind of kids.

There were changes in her

industry, which were meaning

that if she didn't upskill

and go and do many more

qualifications, that was going

to impact her down the track.

She had a marriage, you

know, there were, you

know, the whole package

family stuff going on.

but she had this vision for

the work that she really

wanted to create, and she

kept on outsourcing all

her brilliance and creating

it for everyone else and

serving everyone else.

And what I could see was it

was her intention was good,

but the alignment of how she

was doing it wasn't good.

It wasn't serving her

and it was manifesting

in these migraines.

It was manifesting in,

you know, her fatigue.

It was manifesting in her

overworking in an organization

that actually didn't

appreciate her to the level.

And now, you know, she's

working for herself.

She's set things up.

She, she's studying,

she's still got two

teenage children.

You know, she's got, you

know, it's all still going on.

But what she did when

she placed herself.

In the center and really took

time to align with that bigger

vision for what she wanted

to create, rather than the

reactivity of in the moment or

we've just gotta get through

to month end or you know,

like those sorts of pressures.

When she stepped back, not

only did her migraines ease,

but she was able to step out

of work that she was doing,

which was meaningful and good.

But just was not really

aligned with what her

bigger vision was.

And so her energy was

better placed elsewhere.

And, you know, She's,

thriving.

She's, you know, and that's

just, I guess, a really simple

example because we are taking

into consideration that this

isn't just about your work.

You know, you still wanna be

a mother to your children.

You still wanna participate

holistically and wholly

in your marriage.

You wanna be part of your

family and your community.

You wanna be well.

mm Chando,

I could talk to you

for absolute hours.

You've got me already thinking

about, as I plan the next

season of my business,

some of the additional

things I need to consider.

I know you've, you shared

a few ideas along the way

through this conversation,

but if we just sort of

wrap it up in case people

have missed it around.

You know, if one of our

listeners is feeling stuck, or

they are successful on paper,

you know, but the reality

is they could be exhausted.

I know you are in a pilgrim

program that you run, talks

a lot about this pathway

from overwhelm to clarity.

what's the first 10 minute

thing or the first thing?

The only thing, the one

thing that they could do

right now when this podcast

ends to rebuild that trust

in their inner guidance, in

their, in their intuition.

Great question.

The one thing that you can

start with is to shut down all

the things around yourself.

Yeah.

And give yourself.

Some space.

Doesn't matter where it

can be in your car on the

side of the soccer pitch

while your kids are playing.

Doesn't matter where it is,

but you know, phone away

on silent, nothing else.

Give yourself that space.

Have three breaths.

Yeah.

So three breaths in one breath

in through your nose and out

another breath in any your

own time and in and out.

And that third breath in.

And as it comes

out, just a like.

Let yourself have that out.

Breath soften, and ask

yourself the question,

what would I love?

Gosh.

I love that.

What you don't know, Chendu?

'cause I haven't shared is

probably about half an hour

before we jumped online.

It's exactly what I did.

I do 10 minutes.

did my breathing and my

question was connecting

in with you and how

this podcast, how this

conversation was going to go.

And it was really funny

'cause Chandu yesterday said,

have I got any questions?

I said, oh, there's gonna

be plenty, but I've got

none to give you yet.

I am a massive advocate.

Of your work.

I have witnessed firsthand

the impact that your work

has as a collective and

on an individual basis.

And I support what you're

saying, chendu, that the

world right now needs leaders

and business owners and

parents needs all of us.

'cause we're all

leaders to actually.

Take notice of the work

that we're here to do,

to take notice of the

decisions that we're making

and to really consciously,

have conversations, make

decisions, put in place,

strategies that are going

to create those positive.

Ripples of change versus

the knee jerking, responsive

transactional businesses that

essentially got us to here.

and so.

I love your work.

I don't even know if I'm

allowed to share, but I

know you're writing a book.

I don't think we've

got a launch date yet.

I will, make sure in the

show notes for any of you

listening, I will put all

the details of how you can

get in touch with Chendu.

as we close up, what's your

final message that you'd like

to share with our listeners?

It's really normal

to be fearful when we

are approaching change

or we are feeling that

we need to make change.

We've got ancient wiring

that's set up to keep

us safe and, and yet.

Change is the thing

that keeps us fresh.

Change is the thing

that keeps us vibrant.

Change is the thing that

makes us human, that

makes us, you know, a, a

creature of, you know, life.

And if we approach it

with a degree of curiosity

and courageousness, we

see the opportunities

in it, whether it's.

You know, it's a period

of change that we chose of

whether it's a period of

change that we didn't choose.

I'd just like people to

understand that there's,

there's always opportunity

and that we can have hope,

that we can look back and

go, I've been through myriad

changes and if I stay curious

and I stay courageous, I'm

gonna make it through this

mm.

well.

Mm. Du thank you

so much for your time

today, uh, and the gift

of this conversation.

as I said, I could talk to

you forever, but I really

appreciate everything

that you share today.

And Thank you for all that

you are bringing to all our

lives in terms of how we lead,

how we live, how we build

our own versions of success.

It's been an absolute joy to

have you on the podcast today.

Thank you so

much for having me.

It's been an absolute honor.

Thank you.

It's lovely to work

with you, Janine.