Healthy Hustle: Thriving in Business Without Burnout

Nikki and Ness,

congratulations on your

new book, Healthy Hustle.

Super excited, Healthy

Hustle, the new

blueprint to thrive

in business and life.

I am very excited to talk

to you about the book.

This book, but before we

get into the depths of the

book, I'm curious why is

this book healthy hustle

so important for now?

the reality is that

right now, hustling

hard is costing lives.

And that's not even

a dramatic statement.

when we're hustling

hard, when we're doing

the unhealthy hustle, at

best, it will minimize the

efficiency of our business.

It will impact the long

term sustainability.

But at worst, people

are dying from

exhaustion, from burnout.

Um, we have interviewed

Christine Boucher.

Who is a health and

wellness coach who spent

20 years as a nurse looking

after intensive care

patients around, um, you

know, issues with heart

disease, stroke, diabetes,

and she could see the

trajectory that these

people were on and how

they got to where they are.

High stress environments

are one of the most

reasons, common

reasons that people

go and see a doctor.

Um, you know, we know that

more than 9 in 10 workers

are chronically stressed.

These are some of the

stats and research that

we did for the book,

but you don't need to do

that research to know.

You just look at the

news, you hear the stories

around exhaustion, burnout,

physical, um, harm.

You know, Ariana

Huffington, she's a classic

example of a woman who

collapsed from exhaustion,

Uh, broke her cheekbone on

the way, way down, woke up

in a little pool of blood

and was like, Oh my gosh,

what's the cause of this?

It was exhaustion, stress.

They're the high profile

scenarios that we know.

And I think we all have

maybe not to the extreme

of that, but examples of

this in our everyday life.

, I've literally done a

coaching session with

a leader on how to have

time to go to the toilet.

And it sounds ridiculous.

It's crazy.

But that's the reality

of the state that

we're in right now.

So why now we have to

create change, why this

book, Ness and I, you

know, we've been doing this

gig for decades, actually

over 50 years together.

And I really don't

like saying that a

lot, but it's true.

You know, we've observed,

we've done tens of

thousands of coaching

hours, training sessions.

We've observed patterns

of behavior that achieved

success without burnout

or without entrepreneurial

addiction and the patterns

and the behaviors that keep

us stuck in the busy trap

stuck in the whirlwind.

Uh, and so we really

kind of came together and

went, how do we distill

this knowledge and this

information, not just from

our collective smarts, but

also, you know, Christine

and leaning on other

experts to go actually,

what is the blueprint?

Because reality is it

is our duty of care

to create change.

And as business leaders,

the three of us here,

people that are listening,

people that are watching.

It's serious and it is

absolutely a call to arms

to find a better way.

It's got to happen,

and if not us, who, right?

It's time.

Love that.

And,

uh, I have to fess up and

say, uh, I was so honored

to have been asked to

write the forward of the

book and everything that

you are saying there.

resonates.

Um, it's why I was a hell.

Yeah, I'll absolutely

write this forward

because I'm with you.

There are too many business

owners right now that are

stuck in that busy track

that are spinning hard.

And the very reason.

That they went out to

create what they're

creating is almost like

a far forgotten dream

because they're so

busy peddling hard in

their own businesses.

I'm curious for you,

who do you think

should read this book?

Who needs to

read this book?

It's really pointed

towards business owners and

leaders with established

businesses and teams.

So they're looking for

a better way to continue

to grow the business

and they're really sick

of the hustle culture.

So the hustle culture

keeps you tethered to

your business and they're

really wanting to get

out of that, hustle and

grind kind of mentality.

And find a better way.

But I think there's

a fear that if I do

something differently,

the success I've had up

until now is going to go.

So they are action takers.

They're driven for

success and they want

to continue to succeed,

but it's getting to a

point where it's feeling

really, really hard.

And that leaves them.

feeling like they're

stuck in business.

They're not spending

time with those who

matter the most.

They're getting towards

that burnout and they're

beginning to wonder

whether it's all worth it.

And what we don't want

is to have people who

have worked so damn hard

to get to where they

are, getting to a point.

Of it's either my health

or the business and I

need to walk away because

we go into business,

all of us go into

business because

there's something

that we believe

that we can add value to,

that we can solve

a problem for,

that we can help others.

And it's not about losing

sight of that, but it's

about getting to a point

where we can say, okay,

we can keep growing.

But not without

the exhaustion.

when I say that, I

think about, one of our

beautiful clients, Jody,

who was at a point of near

burnout and she really was

contemplating walking away

cause it was just too hard.

And what she was able to

do over a period of time

is to realize there is a

different way of working.

And we're now two years

down the track and the

business is still growing

from strength to strength.

She's taken a leader on

board in the business.

, there's a way forward

without feeling like she

has to let down the 25

staff that they have,

her mum who started

the business, feeling

like a failure for,

for giving it all away.

And instead, she's in

a position now where

she can take holidays.

She can actually find

that, that balance

between work and life

that works for her and

not get to that overwhelm

and exhaustion phase.

So I think of people like

Jodie, and I realized that

they're the kind of people

that are going to get the

best out of this book.

But also, um, Uh, second

to that, we've had

leaders in corporate,

in big corporate,

read the book, and we

know that it actually

helps them as well.

So I think the secondary

audience would be leaders

in a business that's not

theirs, but primarily

the examples and what we

go through are written

for the business owner.

Yeah, and I think what

you're talking that to

the to their this hustle

culture, um, is almost

a size of business

entrepreneur versus

corporate agnostic.

Nikki you spoke about

this about, you know, all

of the stats all of the

trends coming through,

whether you are a one

person business or a leader

of a huge conglomerate.

This.

Hustle, whether it be

hustle for sales, hustle

for time, hustle at

meetings, hustle with

people, like this hustle

and the exhaustion that's

coming with that is

currently detrimental to

business owners, leaders,

but then it filters down

through team because

they're seeing that as

the only way to work.

One of the key things

that I'm interested to

understand is why you've

kept hustle in the title

of the book because of

its negative connotations.

You do talk a lot through

the book about moving

from hustle to happy

versus, um, that hard

hustle that's going on.

So I'm really curious to

hear from your perspective,

, the rationale of.

Hustle still being

there in that title.

So here's the thing.

We don't necessarily

want to take some

of the hustle away.

The problem is we've

taken the hustle too far.

So the hustle has

become the unhealthy

hardcore push, push,

push till we drop.

What we want to do is we

want to look at what, what

elements of hustle actually

work for us, because

we want to create this

definition of success that

says, We can be tenacious,

we can be driven,

we can be determined,

we can get up and go,

we can have momentum,

but not at all costs.

What if we could do

that and prioritize

life just as much?

So we think that the hustle

is a really important

component and there's

lots of conversations

and narrative about

the hustle is bad and

move away from it.

I mean, we opened this

conversation with the

negatives of hustle.

Yet, if we look at how

we can make the hustle

healthy, we can start

to unlearn, relearn

different beliefs that

maybe hold us back.

You know, the reality is

that, the people that we're

talking to, the business

owners, leaders is we're

successful for a reason.

There's certain things in

there we want to keep and

we want to build on, but

there's certain things like

beliefs we want to let go

of, um, the way that we're

managing our energy, you

know, the way the time

of day we're working.

All those sorts of things,

the type of business that

we're building, we have

the opportunity to redefine

what that looks like.

We need to add the healthy

and we need to keep

the hustle because the

hustle creates momentum.

Pressure makes diamonds.

Uh, so it's not about

one or the other.

Why does it have

to be at Costco?

What if we could have

both, but we do it in

a really smart way.

And so this is why

everything we do is

through the filter

of healthy hustle.

Even when we talk

about sales, it's like,

what's a smart way to

generate more inquiries

or sales or conversions?

Like what's a clever

way to do this.

So I think that's a really

important point when we're

looking at healthy hustle.

And the other thing

I, I just kind of

want to mention here

around this is that.

Typically, you know,

when you're ready to

move from the hustle

to happy, there's a

bit of a crossroads.

We call it the

growth set point, the

crossroad of your pain

and growth set point.

So you've had success in

business, time in business

results in business.

Revenue profit team

has grown established

products and services, but

then the business owner

starts to feel like a bit

stuck and what's next.

Do I really have

to continue my

success in this way?

And there's three

choices here.

And this is what we

talk about in the book.

And really everything

is centered around.

What choice will you make?

Because you can keep

going as you are.

And the business

will plateau.

You're not trying

new strategies.

You're just going, you

know, and you're not

challenging that status

quo, or we find a lot

of business owners

and leaders will bury

their head in the sand.

So they go into

avoidance and that's

when you'll actually

start to go backwards.

Think of the dream.

Think of the reason that

you came in business,

into business, lifestyle,

time with family.

You know, you don't

want to sacrifice that.

Yeah.

Or you could choose the

third option, which is

what we're encouraging,

which is this hustle to

happy and healthy hustle,

where you actually start

to look at things in a

different way and redefine

what success looks like.

So we've got to

keep the hustle.

We just need to

make it a healthy,

resourceful hustle.

I love that.

I love the peace

around you and I were

also aligned here.

It's that momentum.

You're okay.

It's okay to strive

for momentum, for

more, for success,

but not at all costs.

And this, this is what

you talk about in,

in healthy hustle.

And thank you for sharing.

The rationale there, I

think it makes absolute

sense of moving from

hard hustle that's,

, essentially doing damage

to healthy hustle, which

is, as I talk about life

and business by design.

I'm curious, before we get

into the depths of what

you write about, so we can

share with the audience a

little bit more, you've got

three main concepts, that

you talk to in the book.

Can you just share

those, uh, with your

audience, please?

Sure.

So the three concepts that

we talk about is moving

away from where business

feels really chaotic.

We call it business

chaos over across

to smart growth.

So it's getting out of

the clutter and then

looking at how you're

going to move the business

forward in a smart way.

We also look at this

concept of juggle street,

the being everything to

everyone kind of situation

and wanting our leaders

and their teams to move

to peak performance.

So peak performance across

the way that they work, the

way that they do business.

And then the third area

that we look at is getting

out of the busy trap, you

know, that mouse wheel

where you just feel like

no matter what you do, you

can't get on top of it all.

And you're constantly

spinning your wheels

and actually allowing

the business owner and

the team to have time,

freedom, time, freedom

to be able to prioritize

life, but also time

freedom to see what's next.

What's the next big idea

or the next thing that

you want to achieve.

So they're the three big

topics we talk about.

All right, let's deep

dive into each of these.

So first one, you talk

about moving from business

chaos to smart growth.

Uh, can you tell me more

about what that means?

Um, and it'd be great

to hear some evidence

of success when people

have moved to that

smart growth place.

So smart business growth

and moving from that

place of chaos to smart

growth is really about

leveraging three key areas.

You've got to have

a clarity of the

clarity of direction

that you're heading.

So business planning,

but gone are the days of

the, you know, 500 page

PowerPoint presentations.

You spend months creating

it, just a simple plan

on a page, or we call

it the true North frame,

a true North framework,

uh, to help guide

people through a simple

process to have a plan.

When you have a plan

and you have a focus on

sales and equally profit.

So plan sales and profit.

That's actually how, you

know, you've got smart

business growth in place.

Now we have a client,

James, he features

in the book, um,

incredible results.

So we've worked with him

for the last five years.

He has had 98 percent

year on year growth on

average for the last.

Now he's an established

business owner, uh, and

there was an increase

in profit as well.

He's installed smart

business growth strategies.

He has a plan.

He focused on

sales and profit.

And obviously there's

key elements around that,

but what we were really

celebrating earlier this

year, when he shared

this with us, yes, the

revenue results are great.

Yes.

The profit

increased amazing.

We love that

we're in business.

We love the numbers.

But the thing that

we were most excited

about and celebrating.

Was the fact that he

doesn't have his phone at

the dinner table anymore,

that he can have

breakfast with his wife

before going into work,

he's got time to

do school pickup,

he's working towards

a four day week.

that's what matters

because when he came to

us, he was like, Nikki,

I'm constantly connected.

I'm waiting for

the next thing.

That's going to need me.

I can't, it's taking

me away from my family.

And we actually

interviewed him on a

podcast episode as well.

Really uncovering what his

beliefs were that, that

defined his definition

of success when it came

to, to smart growth,

sales profit, et cetera.

So that to me is.

Such a classic example of

somebody who is absolutely

living and breathing

smart grid strategies.

Um, he also has implemented

some of the peak

performance, um, components

and time freedom, but

at its core, that's

where we have to start.

So.

Smart growth or

from business care

to smart growth.

What I love about

what you share again

reiterates that this

isn't about hustling hard.

It's about hustling smartly

or healthy hustle that you

talk about and who doesn't

want more choice in how

they're managing their day.

I'm sure there's

people listening.

I want more holiday.

I want more time off.

Um, Thanks for sharing that

unless I want to jump to

the second one, because I

think, your concept here,

I equally, I'm hearing so

much in the marketplace

right now, this feeling

of I'm constantly juggling

lots of different things.

You call it

juggles straight.

And I go, absolutely.

Yes.

People seem to have so

many balls in the air

that the challenge is

they can't focus on On

the right things that

are going to shift the

dial or as you talk

about peak performance.

I'd love to hear from you.

Some examples of what

people can do to move

from juggle street to

peak performance and

why it's important

that they do that.

For sure.

So when we talk about

Juggle Street, I think

of one of our clients,

Mark, and he stated it

beautifully in that he was

very reactive rather than

responsive to challenges.

So it was like, and I'm

sure our listeners who

are in Juggle Street

can resonate with this.

It's like putting out some

Spot fires everywhere.

So he was just like,

here's a problem to solve.

I'm going to solve

that problem.

And then onto the next,

which meant that in this

reactive kind of response

to leading, he wasn't

looking at that bigger

picture and thinking

around, well, what is it

about the culture that

we're setting up here?

How can I set up the

systems to support my team?

Cause in his mind, and

he was a leader in a

business, someone else

looked after that.

So once those pieces came

together around creating

an environment for the team

where they understood their

role and their purpose,

and he got people sort of

on board around what the

culture of the team is.

So what are the attitudes

that we turned up to

work with every day?

What are the standards?

What are the expectations?

And then him focusing on

how can I set my people

up to succeed rather than

have them reinvent the

wheel every single time.

So looking at those

two things combined,

we're really helpful

for him to be able to

approach problem solving

in a different manner.

And then that third

piece around people and

skills coming together,

understanding what

makes my team tick.

How am I going to get

the best performance

out of Nikki compared to

Ness compared to Janine?

It's that whole thing

around just having that

superpower to realize

how to fast track

influencing those people.

And I think that what

happened for him was he

started to realize that

That not only was the

performance improving

amongst the team, but

for him, it was a less

stressful way of leading

because he wasn't getting

to the day before a day

off or a public holiday

thinking, you know, if

everything's going to hit

the fan, it's going to be

on me and my team aren't

going to know what to do.

So I really see that,

that the juggle street.

Is driven by this

reactionary way of leading

and to be able to get

to peak performance,

you've got to do

something different.

I love that.

What I'm hearing there

too, is moving from a place

of just transactionally

going through your day,

as you said, responding

to fires that need to be

put out or emails that

landed in your inbox.

Or somebody else's drama

that they're bringing

into work versus taking

ownership around the

transformational nature

that you can initiate

or drive or own through

peak performance.

So, , can totally

understand why that's

such a critical part

of healthy hustle.

I want to move now to, to

the third, piece of your

IP that you share in this

book, which I have no doubt

many of our listeners are

going to resonate with.

, it's this piece about

moving from the busy

trap into a place

of time freedom.

Can you tell me

more about that?

Yeah, so I've just done

this little experiment

over the last two and

a half years where I

googled, Google searched,

how can I manage my

time more effectively?

And I've looked at how

many results there are.

So stick with me because

over the last two and a

half years, The amount of

search results that come

back for how can I manage

more time effectively have

increased by 6 billion.

What that tells us is

that people are searching

for a better way to

manage their time.

6 billion!

It went from 514

million to 6.

37 in two and a half years.

But the reality is we

actually don't need another

time management tool.

We've done the courses,

we've read the books,

we've got all the tools

at our fingertips.

If we don't first work

on things like our belief

around time, Then it

doesn't matter what time

management tool you have.

It will never do its job,

which is, I think why

we're seeing the increase

in people needing and

wanting this information.

I even think one of my

favorite resources to

share is the big rocks

video with Stephen Covey.

You know, it's in

the late eighties,

big shoulder pads.

You know, the, the big

hair, but the reason I

bring that up now as well

is that was back then.

And we're still looking

for a better way

to manage our time.

So if we can just pop

the pause button on

what we're doing for a

second and actually start

reflecting on things like

what about, what are my

beliefs around time and

how is this serving me?

Um, a classic example

is Ben, the B word

people right now,

Ben, the word busy.

So again, I think about

a client who we talk

about it in the book,

who was a new leader and

really wanted to succeed.

Another James.

This is, um, we seem to

attract working with James.

So James H, um,

you know, he really

wanted to succeed.

He really, when he got

caught in this cycle

of busy and he thought,

That by asking for

help, that's showing a

weakness, you know, he,

but his beliefs around

how he's managing his

time and asking for help

when, when serving him.

So when we were able

to have a conversation

around, okay, what if you

actually just remove that

word from your vocabulary?

Um, this was a mission

that I went on incorporate

years ago, because

what's the most common

answer that you get

when, when, when you ask.

People, how are you?

They say busy.

And so then we're

keeping ourselves

stuck in that perpetual

cycle of busy trap.

So that is my challenge.

Things like beliefs and

the subtleties of language.

What are you

telling yourself?

Um, just to build on that

a little bit, I also want

to I'm going to look at

this from the perspective

of we can either live

our life living in busy

or being in busy, or we

use the terminology in

the book, we can move

to a place of living.

It doesn't mean you don't

have a lot going on.

It doesn't mean that,

you know, you are,

we're all just as busy

as the next person, but

we have the same amount

of time in the day.

So it just means that

we can come to a place.

of mindfulness.

We can come to a

place of appreciating

moments, even when it

feels really chaotic.

So beliefs are

really important.

We don't need another

time management tool.

The boundaries that we

set for ourselves as well,

really helped me from busy

trap to time freedom and

understanding out what is

right for my unique me.

What's my internal driver.

So things like, am

I a morning person?

Am I a night person?

What type of clients

do I want to work with?

What type of work?

How can I empower my team

to step up so I can step

back and we can all be

living in our genius zone?

I giggled when you talked

about the time management

because I can't remember.

I remember I must have

been before my time.

I remember in my very

first job as a graduate

trainee doing a time

management course.

And I actually got

into trouble because

the person that was

delivering that training.

As she said to me, you're

on the tube Janine, whilst

you're on the tube, you

could do X, Y and Z.

And I went.

No, I don't see why I

should feel that time.

I quite happy reading

my, uh, whatever the

best selling book was.

And I remember being hauled

into the HR office at

the time and being told

that's actually not what

you should be doing at

this age in your career.

, and I've heard it

subsequently, not that

same thing, but the

other one that gets me is

when people congratulate

themselves for zero inbox.

And then at the same

time, they're exhausted

or they've worked late.

And I go, who said you

had to have a zero inbox?

Where, where did

that rule come from?

So,

why is it that sometimes

when you give yourself

a challenge, you seem to

be able to find the time?

So I love the concept of

Busy Tractor Time Freedom.

And equally as someone

that's been running their

own business now for, I

think about 20 years in

corporate, I reckon that is

the one thing that I have

to continuously work on

I've got good at removing

busy from my vernacular.

, but that being disciplined

about the other stuff

and understanding that

that is as important

As answering an email.

Um, so, so much

good stuff in here.

Um, having read this

book, I was lucky enough

to, uh, read the book in

its various iterations

before you got to a

final, uh, manuscript.

Uh, there are

so many tools.

There's so much.

Research gone into this.

Um, and that's what I

love about your book,

Healthy Hustle, that

it's not just what you've

seen from your years of

work, both in corporate

and, uh, the clients

that you've worked with

subsequently, who you've

helped shift into this

place of healthy hustle.

It's not just that

you've backed up

with so much insight.

evidence that it's

actually hard to

argue with what you're

actually saying here.

And, um, I think that

if people can pick up

this book and even take

1 percent of it, it's

going to help them move

from that place of hard

hustle and the risk of that

to themselves and their

business to being happy.

And a healthy hustle

of actually finding the

joy in their business

again and reconnecting

with the very reason why

they're doing this for

themselves, for their

families, for their teams

and their communities.

So, congratulations on

such an incredible book.

Um, As we sort of wrap

this up, what, what is your

wish for the readers, um,

that pick up this book and

have the chance to absorb

the awesomeness in it?

Well, our wish for the

individual reader who's

picked up the book because

they're resonating with

this message is is simply

that they get their life

back, that their business

can be the dream that

they had and have the

success that they want.

And they can still spend

time with those that

they love, doing the

things that lights them

up, that they enjoy and

make them feel healthy

and make them feel happy.

And I really think it's

about coming back and

saying, there's one part

of the book that Nikki, um,

quoted, , this beautiful

poem, I think it was,

in relation to what are

you going to do with

your one precious life?

But that's how

important it is.

And that's our wish

for somebody who's

reading the book.

But bigger than that, our

wish for the collective

is that we really start

to change the business

landscape for the better.

So we want a more

sustainable way to

help people thrive

in business and life.

And we want to create that

ripple effect right across.

So not only touching the

reader, but their teams.

And then of course the

families and the, the

children to come and all

of that, that sort of

like that, it goes out

much further than just the

person reading the book

because they're applying

what they know and really

having the opportunity

to challenge and break

those cycles, especially

Especially around hustle,

so that they can be

healthier human beings

and happier human beings.

And I think that that is

our wish for the whole

collective of people

who pick up the book.

But also within that.

It doesn't mean

anything if you don't

do something, right?

We can read books, so

they're not going to have

an impact unless we do it.

So we ask anyone

who picks it up.

Our ask of you is to

just do one thing,

pick one thing and

make a change on that.

And then of course.

By the book, and then that

way, once that one thing

is nailed, you've got the

next thing to move on to.

So this is a

long term plan.

It's not a quick fix.

It's not going to all

happen in, you know, the

next week it's around.

As Nikki said earlier, it's

about challenging belief

systems and implementing

new ways of working.

So that's, that's really

what we're hoping to

achieve through putting

this book out to the world.

One of the things I

picked up in your book

that you said, and I

think you said it a few

times through the book,

and I'm quoting here, is

you said, working smarter

is no longer a luxury.

Can one of you

comment on that?

Because I think there's

so much in that statement,

working smarter is

no longer a luxury.

Yeah, because it is

no longer a luxury.

And, and I think what

we have to bring to

the table here is that

healthy hustle, isn't

just, I'm going to do

a little bit more yoga.

I'm going to

drink more water.

Like that is important.

They're the basic

foundational elements,

but the reality

is that this is.

You know, something we need

to take seriously, and it's

no longer a luxury because

we need to create change.

Change is needed.

And again, I go back

to what I mentioned

before around.

It's actually our

duty of care to do

something about it.

Now, we're fortunate

enough to have the

capacity to do something

to break the cycles

that have gone before.

We're not working in the

industrial revolution.

People.

, yes, we're dealing

with constant change

and challenges, but we

have it within us to be

able to create change.

So it is no

longer a luxury.

It's a must.

It's essential

for survival,

for your business,

for your health,

for your teen's health,

and again, that ripple

effect that we talk about.

how can people

best contact you?

So, uh, the book is

available, uh, you can

get it, I'm assuming

via your website, uh,

but how else can people

get in contact with you?

How can we support you?

So first of all,

healthyhustle.

com.

au is where you go to

get the book, but also,

uh, you can visit us

at businesstogether.

com.

au and you can get to

the book from there.

But that's if you want

to friendly stalk us

and find out a little

bit more about us.

Plus Nikki and I are

both on LinkedIn.

Um, that's our social

platform of choice.

And you can just look

us up there and connect

with us on there.

We'd love to start

the conversation

around how Healthy

Hustle can help you.

Um, and we'll put all

that, all those links

in the show notes.

I think any business

owner, any entrepreneur,

any executive, any

business leader, any

CEO needs to grab a copy

of this book because

who doesn't want smart

growth, who doesn't want.

Peak performance and who

doesn't want time freedom.

Congratulations on such

an incredible book and

for the gift that you

have given the planet to

drive that change from

hardcore hustle to healthy

hustle and actually

happily building the

businesses of our dreams.

You're amazing.

Thank you.

Thanks Janine.

Thank you Janine.